Comp Mod Season 14 Changelog

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7 October 2018 - 21:34 CEST
#1
Version 8. 11/5/2018

medpack 1 decrease research time from 1 minute to 45 second research time
Medpacks 2 decrease research time from 90 seconds to 60 seconds
Increase weldspeed from 4 armor to 6mor per tick

Medpack upgrades are a good addition, but dont see to come out early enough and be relevant with the previous research times. We hope the new research times help with some timings, and alleviate all the chip damage aliens can pull off


MG pres increased from 15 to 25
SG pres inc from 22 to 25
Mines pres increase from 8 to 10
Marine starting pres inc from 22 to 25
JPs pres increase from 20 to 23
gorge tunnel pres 4

Trying to adjust for better games, we’re finding that too much pres is not being spent on marines, we want both teams to be exhausting their resources to gain advantages at certain timings. While we are monitoring marine economy, we don't want to over do it. Balancing with the previous pres increases we’re slowly finding our comfort zone of weapon and life form cost. Also gorges having extra 2 res was kinda silly, having that extra hydra can make a marine empty a clip which could change a whole fight.

MG bullet damage decreased by 1

The HMG from vanilla is actually kinda good, we’ve seen some dominant games with it previously but it has not seemed to have impacted gameplay like it has in vanilla. At its current 15 pres price though, we have to increase it because of its raw efficiency, the damage it outputs is also insane, capable of killing a fade and a lerk easily in 1 clip.


Removed spawn with upgrades

An insane vanilla change where the developers thought people would forget to take upgrades, actually has balance implications when it comes to pushing a hive. Skulks no longer try to escape and get upgrades, but they can just go into any fight they want without thinking, or threaten marines by dancing around terrain without having a second or 2 of vulnerability


AA Cost increased to 25

hmgs/gls/flamers, AA is really relevant and good, trying to delay it a bit by making it 25 will help with timings, if they rush a faster aa they might not have enough res for pgs or upgrades or recapping


increase weld speed from 4 per tick to 6 (only for welding marines, make sure this doesnt affect EXOs and building, this change decreases weld time for marines by about 33%)

Something kinda controversial, but im experimenting with rebalancing lerk spikes and welding. I dont want marine tanks so if you can break this change by spamming meds 2 on a SG marine while 1 idiot welds him constantly please show me gameplay. Ill also be trying to break this. The focus of this change is the decrease a bit of the chaos for hive pushes, usually you have to assign 1 guy to weld the team while everyone else keeps shooting but we’re finding it harder and harder to get time to do this welding while there is an onslaught of bile bomb, lerk spikes, and gorge spits and whip echo hits.



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Version 7. 11/4/2018

-increased starting pres cost of aliens from 17 to 19
-increased cost of lerk to 25 from 23
-increased cost of fade to 44 from 42

-reverted carapace changes
-skulk hp per biomass changed from 5 to 3
-skulk starting armor changed from 12 to 10
-skulk ap per shell changed from 4.33 to 6.66

We’ve found that changing the early game by 1 bullet has lead to snowballs where marines can’t win any early engagements, leading them to get snowballed into oblivion. we're looking very closely at the winrates for marines and aliens, we've further adjusted the rate at which aliens can get their lifeforms again.


-decreased fade blink initial speed from 15.5 to 14.5

Fades seemed a bit 2 fast on their initial blinks


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Version 6. 11/3/2018

-reverted egg HP changes from vanilla (all eggs 350 hp)

self explanatory change, comp mod wouldn't be the same without killing adhd's lifeform egg getting an upgrade in a random room


-increased obs supply from 30 to 40
-decreased sentry battery supply from 20 to 10

after doing some quick maths we've found that the whole marine supply balance was dependant on observatories having a high supply. we found to 30 was 2 low and that sentry batteries being 20 supply also made no sense


-reduced time on fire from cluster grenades from 4 seconds to 2 seconds
-reduced nerv gas duration from 13 seconds to 8
-reduced grenade pres from 4 to 3

trying to keep grenades viable and fun while also not feeling spammable we've decreased the pres cost a bit and slightly nerfed powerful components of nerv and cluster nades


-removed extra 20 fade armor, fades now have 80 base armor instead of 100
-increased fade blink initial speed from 13.5 to 15.5
-increased shotgun spread value from 8.75 to 8.88 (this changed decreases sg spread and gives sgs more damage at range)

we wanted fades to be faster and have less hp so after increasing the viability of the sg we found fades to be 'flying bricks'. moving towards a more engaging and fun game we've decided to make fades have the same top speed but make gaining that speed quicker


-increased armor per shell on cara skulks from 3.33 to 4.33
-decreased hp per biomass on skulks from 6 to 5

some further rebalancing of cara skulks



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Version 5. 10/24/2018

-Increase fade armor by 20
-change spread from 9 to 8.75 (this means sgs are more spread, reducing the effectiveness of sgs at range)

We've found that the matchup between shotguns and fades to be too binary, either the SG-er hits meatshots from a longer than intended distance and the fade has to leave the fight, or the SG-er misses and the marines lose the engagement. I think we overestimated the hitbox change UWE had done with the fade, and to compensate we have changed the range effectiveness of SGs and slightly increased the armor of fades.


-reduce web hp to 20 from 80
-removed webs dying in any way from the kill feed.

Gorges are very strong right now, their utility is unmatched by anything else in the game. with webs being free and unlocked right when the game starts we want to make sure that webs are counterable by welders.

-increase grenade pres from 2 to 4 tres
-decreased pulse grenade auto detonation time from 3 to 1 second

Pulse grenades have not been acting as we intended, and reducing the detonation time will allow a well placed pulse to do it's effective damage. We also found that with the pres rate increase grenades are too spammable, adjusting them to 3 pres will hopefully give some drawback to spamming grenades.


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Version 4. 10/21/2018

-Increased the starting pres for marines and aliens by 2
-Increased the pres cost for shotguns/gorges/lerks/fades/onos

From our extensive testing we have found that re-lifeforming has been coming too early in our games. Since the pres changes we've adopted from vanilla, the window of pushing aliens when killing lifeforms has been too small. We also want losing shotguns to be equivalently punishing, shotguns are coming out too often and players are not thinking intelligently about why they are buying shotguns and what they are doing with them. We have also found that the transition from mid-game marine tech to late game jetpack tech required little to no thought from the players. People have not been saving pres to spend on jetpacks but just buying shotguns constantly without feeling pressured to save pres for higher tech.
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#2
Version 3. 10/20/2018

-Changed echo time from 3 seconds to 4 seconds
-Changed enzyme tres cost from 1 to 2

We found some elements of shift hive to be a bit over tuned, and are looking to encourage commanders to be more proactive with their echos instead of not being able to be punished at all if they make mistakes of when to hop in and out of the hive to echo things.


-Changed Nano shield Grace radius from 6 to 3

Nano shield always was a bit wonky, we found the sensitivity of it to be way too low, sometimes nano shielding random objects like macs instead of Exos or power nodes instead of phase gates. Hopefully thing commanders are actually trying to Nano get nano'd. Will be looking further into this.

-Changed mine arm time from .17 to .10


mines weren't working as expected in a lot of scenarios, allowing aliens going fast enough to not take damage from them, we made it so mines trigger faster. Note: this does not stop your ability to bite mines without taking damage, recommended to join a local server and test with cheats on before you try it in your friendly neighborhood gather.


-Changed Onos hp decrease from -300 to -200

Onos HP is a hot topic, we still want onoses to be punished for making mistakes, but are fearful of their capabilities with bone shield (which is still being reviewed!! Please try it out) we do realize though that not everyone can get bio 4 on 1 hive every game, and some games teams end up using a lot of resources on trying to expand to other tech points. This has resulted in not many commanders prioritizing bone shield, even when 2 hives are successfully up. Combined with Umbra, Mucous, Hallucination, and Boneshield with a shift/crag/gorge we know on paper onoses are very strong still for holding areas.


-Changed Marine tres drop costs to match pres buyouts for HMG/Mines/Welder

Self explanatory change, HMGs costing the same as a prototech lab was ridiculous. Mines costing 15 tres as a remnant of the old 3 mines for 15 tres and welders costing 5 tres while players buying them cost 3 is strange (not that we've had many opportunities to drop welders for players, but it might come up, and consistency is nice)


-Changed gorge air friction from 6 to 18, allowing gorges to turn corners while sliding.

Looking to make the game more dynamic, this change will allow our gorge friends to turn while sliding. We are looking closely at the ability to abuse potential speed increases, so let us know what you think.

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Version 2: 10/14/2018

Rebalanced Skulk Hp:
-HP Per Biomass Increased from 3 to 6
-HP Per Shell for Carapace decreased from 6.66 to 3.33
-Starting skulk Armor increased from 10 to 12


Aura
-Decreased frequency of pulsing.
-Increased linger of aura pulses.

Essentially the pulse is faster and lingers for longer. We found that the previous version of aura would not update enough giving marines an advantage when lifeforms would turn corners to find 2 or 3 marines next to them.



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Version 1. 9/30/2018

@@@-Marines-@@@


-SG Spread
SG now have a tighter spread, increasing the value from 8.5 to 9.0

-Nano shield:
Decrease Tres cost from 5 to 3
Decrease research time from 60 to 30
Search range changed from 6 to 3.

-JP:
Commander cost to drop changed to 20 to match Pres cost.

-Catpacks
Research time from 45 to 30

-Gun Drop Time Change from 25 seconds to 23 seconds

-Mines
Mines damage increase from 125 to 150
Mines HP increased to 85 from 30
Mines pres decreased from 10 pres to 8 pres

-Grenades
Grenades research time decreased to 15 seconds from 30
Grenades Tres research increase from 10 to 15
Pulse grenade damage increased from 110 to 140

-Machine Gun
Machine Gun Tres decreased from 20 to 15
Machine Gun research time decreased from 30 to 20 seconds

-Flamethrower
Flamethrower base damage decreased to 8 from 12
Flamethrower burn damage decreased to 6 from 8


@@@-Aliens-@@@


-Onos
Onos P-Res cost change from 66 to 60
Onos health decreased by 300.
Onoides now get blocked by marines while charging

-Fade
Reverted hitbox to vanilla values
Reverted 20 armor increase added in to compensate for hitbox change

-Aura: change aura to visual pulsing effect, but keep the information the same as vanilla (health and armor both are represented by the color of the marine aura) - still waiting on this change

-Nutrient Mist – remove mist function that stops extractors from taking damage while uncysted

-Neurotoxin
Increased neurotoxin damage for skulks from 6 to 8

-Drifters
Decrease cost from 8 tres to 6 tres
Decrease effective health by 20% (300 HP 20 armor --> 240 HP 20 Armor)
Drifter movement speed increased to 13 speed from 11

-Drifter Abilities
Hallucination cost increased from 2 tres to 3 tres
Enzyme cost decreased from 2 tres to 1 tres

-Shift hive
Echoing eggs tres decreased to 1 tres from 2 tres
Echoing delay of structures decreased from 5 seconds to 3 seconds

-Metabolize
Research time decreased from 40 to 30

-Bile bomb
Research time decreased from 40 to 30

-Alien bio 4
Decreased cost to 50 from 60
Research time decreased from 80 to 60

-Bone shield
Bone shield moved from bio 6 to bio 4



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Comp Mod - Old Changes from last season

-Marines and Aliens -

-Remove floating health bars on players for anyone other than commander and spectators
-Pregame damage only occurs when touching enemy/hive

-Marines -

-Starting P-Res for Marines increased from 15 to 20

-Jetpack cost changed from 15 pres to 20 pres

-Removed Friendly Fire from Flamethrower persistent Flame (Puddles)

-Medpack (changes instant heal/heal over time).
Medpacks 1: make medpacks heal 30/20, require armory, are on command station, cost 10Tres, 1 minute research time
Medpacks 2: make meds heal 40/10, require advanced armory, are on the command station, cost 20 Tres, 1.5 minute research time

-Marine Supply Changes:
a) obs 30 supply (up from 0)
b) 1 sentry turret 10 supply (same as before, 10)
c) 1 sentry battery 20 supply (up from 0)
d) arcs 15 supply (up from 10)
e) macs 10 supply (same as before, 10)
f) armory 10 (up from 5)
g) robo 10 (up from 5)

-Aliens-


-Alien Supply changes: (I added this here because Drifter supply cost is changed from last season)
a. Aliens have 100 (was 200) supply on 1 hive, 150 (was 200) on 2 hives, and 200 on 3 hives.
b. Drifter supply cost remain 10 (from 10)
c. Whip supply cost increased to 15 (from 5)
d. Shift, shade, crag supply costs increased to 10 (from 5)

Gorge:
-Gorges crouching destroys most recent drop tunnel
-Babbler change: remove damage taken cap and make their hp 11.

Lerk:
-Spores move to biomass 6
Fade:
-Fade P-Res Cost change from 37 to 40

Onos:
-Onos Speed changes: increase Max Base Speed from 6.6 to 7.5
Aliens Additional Changes:(edited)

-Starting P-Res for Aliens increased from 12 to 15

-Removed the ability to drop lifeform eggs

-Cyst max hp reduce to 180

-Cysts: make them damaged while unconnected

-Cyst maturation rate reduced from 45 to 15

-Focus: removed

-Neurotoxin
added to replace focus, adds a stacking DoT to primary attack. Deals damage per second per stack (8 for fade, 6 for onos and skulk, 4 for lerk, and 5 for gorge)
-Soft cap on all alien healing over 16% per second, reducing effectiveness by 80%
-Structural Movement (other than whips) increase by 33%
-Reduce Mature HP of Whips, Crags, Shades, and Shifts by 15%


Mephilles
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#3
-Jetpack cost changed from 15 to 20

is that tres or pres?

I would like to see the cost of commanders dropping jetpacks be increased to 20 aswell.
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9 October 2018 - 19:03 CEST
#4

Mephilles says

-Jetpack cost changed from 15 to 20

is that tres or pres?

I would like to see the cost of commanders dropping jetpacks be increased to 20 aswell.




I think that's just for PRes, we can look into TRes costs if people think it's an issue.
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9 October 2018 - 20:10 CEST
#5

Mephilles says

-Jetpack cost changed from 15 to 20

is that tres or pres?

I would like to see the cost of commanders dropping jetpacks be increased to 20 aswell.




jps are always 20 tres and now they are 20 pres updating change longs to reflect that miscommunication
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#6
Aura change is now in. Everyone thank lord Bleu for his idea, and our cool friend Nin for providing the code.

<3

Aura: change aura to visual pulsing effect, but keep the information the same as vanilla (health and armor both are represented by the color of the marine aura)
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#7
I heard an idea from someone that I kind of liked:
Crouching (sneaking) marines can't be seen by Aura.

Maybe it was mentioned before but just wanted to bring it up in case it's a new idea.
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#8

Knox says

I heard an idea from someone that I kind of liked:
Crouching (sneaking) marines can't be seen by Aura.

Maybe it was mentioned before but just wanted to bring it up in case it's a new idea.




Let's see how this plays out. The idea is that this will change the all powerful aura a little. Perhaps it will give marines a little unpredictability. Or it will just be a cool pulsing effect.
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#9
Why would you like to decrease the research time for some grades?
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#10

CRaZyCAT says

Why would you like to decrease the research time for some grades?



personally i would love to decrease the research time required to get good grades
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#11

CRaZyCAT says

Why would you like to decrease the research time for some grades?




the research time change is an overall push to make some tech more reactive to what aliens are doing. we've increased the tres by 5 as a trade off and that feels kinda nice atm

shaving off research time gives marines an alternative to say arcing a hive/tunnel/PVE if they need to do it fast because they have an advantage from killing a fade or 2 lerks or wahteverer
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#12

CRaZyCAT says

Why would you like to decrease the research time for some grades?




why do you wanna keep them longer? any changes that try and reasonably increase the pace of the game have my support imo
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#13
There's quite a few changes along those lines.

A lot of it is like doggo said, making things a bit faster-paced in some ways. We'd like it to be viable to react and try and counter-strat if you see something on the map, and some things with longer research times made that more difficult. I like the move of increasing tres, but lowering research times because I think it gives more space for strats. It shouldn't effect overall tech time too much.
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#14
affect
http://i.imgur.com/hr1ud2u.png
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#15

Kmacg says

making things a bit FACER-paced in some ways



China built a wall and they have almost no Mexicans

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#16
rebalanced skulk hp and added in aura change. see above for recent changes.
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#17

phonee says


Recently Added Changes: 10/14/2018

Rebalanced Skulk Hp:
HP Per Biomass Increased from 3 to 6
HP Per Shell for Carapace decreased from 6.66 to 3.33
Starting skulk Armor increased from 10 to 12





Aura
Decreased frequency of pulsing.
Increased linger of aura pulses.

Essentially the pulse is faster and lingers for longer. We found that the previous version of aura would not update enough giving marines an advantage when lifeforms would turn corners to find 2 or 3 marines next to them.



wow so it looks like alternate tech paths are more viable in the early game now as biomass is a reliable survivability upgrade for skulks

cool graphs nice change

The tyranny of the Shell is at an end

The Age of Crag is over. The Time of Neurotoxin has come.

Your mucous and extra armor have been important... 'til now

"What are you?"
"I am Crag meta's reckoning"


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#18
HMG thoughts?

they seem fun atm, i think it's kinda the boost needed for marines. and when researched in the rigth scenario they can actually be good
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#19
The only comp mod that worked and was played to death was the original one. The reason why it worked is because we had the balls to make some big changes regularly (Rant, Me and Dragon). From armory not healing armor to metabolize being added to the game, 80% of the old comp mod ended in the vanilla game because it was more fun.

By doing constant big changes and moving forward with the meta game such as adding new weapon (HMG), abilities and shifting the meta game - NS2 felt fresh, you had things to discover and most importantly = IT WAS FUN!

Balance is over rated, only thing that matters is fun. If you have confidence you can make the game more fun even if you take steps away from vanilla, GO FOR IT! If you want old players to come back into the game you need something fresh for them to be excited for, doing some soft changes for few days not enough.

There are tons of old NS2 players still keeping eye of the game, if you bring something fresh and fun in you get a growing community.

Another important thing is that the comp mod needs to be able to change during a season, honestly there should not even be a season right now. There are simply not enough stable teams. Do night cups for 2-3 months, you will be surprised how many players are up for casual saturday cups. Do adjustments every week on the comp mod, get it good! Use the Night cup to build stable teams, then do another season.

TL:TR MAKE THE GAME FEEL ALIVE AND FUN RIGHT AWAY! Not some slow ass season stuffs and comp mod that does soft changes and adds nothing fresh.

That's my take on things, still love the damn game... but the game is still in the same state from the day I went inactive... we can to better!


Example of real progressive changes
These changes focused on the marine side. This is not detailed as this is just to give ideas of what is possible.

,,One of the biggest hurting points of NS2 is that passive upgrades are too strong and not tied to cost of equipment, this also lowers value of pres.
,,Once equipment is unlocked there is no specific upgrade to that equipment, this means equipment comes at full strength forcing pres cost to be high. (Reason why players are stuck playing with LMG/SKULK big part of the game).
,,Marines really need more statistic diversity".

Note: The Starting TRES should be increase for both teams and all tech cost increase a bit for all tech options. This allows teams to quickly go into 1 tech path in the beginning and slowly advance throughout the game. This would allows us to make both teams tier 2 and 3 progressively stronger.

Marine tech path changelog
,,Remove all Arms lab weapon upgrades and armor upgrades" (Aliens would also lose biomass scaling)
,,Marines start with Armor 1" (Always upgraded anyway)
,,Decrease LMG clip to 40 Bullets"
,,Decrease Shotgun clip to 4 ammo"
,,Increase HMG weight"
,,Flamer does not shut down alien PVE, only removes alien effects (such as umbra/spores). ((I would like to see aliens get access to these eariler))

Add new Arms lab upgrades (Each line is individual upgrade)
,,LMG: Incrase clip size by 10 "
,,LMG: Lower LMG weight (allowing marines to move faster).
,,Flamer: Allows flamer to shut down passive of alien PVE"
,,Flamer: It takes more effort for gorges to remove fire.
,,Shotgun: Increase clips size by 2
,,Shotgun: Rightclick fires 2 shots instantly, 4 second recovery and 50% movement slow.
,,HMG: ,,Allow quick reload with 25% ammunition"
,,HMG: ,,Decrease weight of HMG"
,,Mines: Gain Pulse effect (like Pulse grenades)
,,Mines: Mines can be played on infestation"
Nano Armor Unlock: ,,Armor 2 can be bought at the armory for Pres, use Nano effect"
Nano Armor: The extra armor from Nano armor self welds if no damage is taken over x amount of time".
Nano Armor: Allows marines to do a small double jump while in the air while armor is active.

Notice how these upgrades are mostly tied with the marine equipment, if marines lose their equipment they lose their upgrades as well (not like the passive upgrades today).
This also gives us more control over the marine tech tree and access to different playstyles. It allows us to reduse the pres cost of weapons and have more aviable throughout the game for more diverse gameplay.
The same thing can be done for the proto tech, phase gates, robo, Alien side, everything!
Pushing the value to equipment also allows the games to quickly shift gears giving the other team more comeback potential.


This is only a small changelog of many that could be done for the game.


Feedback welcomed
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18 November 2018 - 10:43 CET
#20
I agree with grissi here tbh. I'd also like to see a compmod version that does some drastic and experimental changes if we think it is fun even though it might screw up balance.

Devs have an eye out for this mod and if we were to introduce something that is fun for players then I think vanilla will incorporate that in their own way (Last example is gorge bunnyhop I think)

The casual cups can be a great tool to test this around various skill levels + keeps the game interesting.
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19 November 2018 - 14:50 CET
#21
We could organise Scrim/Gather every Friday or Saturday for this Experimental mod.
But who is gonna make the mod?
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#22

izO says

We could organise Scrim/Gather every Friday or Saturday for this Experimental mod.
But who is gonna make the mod?



This is indeed the key question, sorry to say I have no idea.
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#23
just make it lol
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24 November 2018 - 18:22 CET
#24
^Grissi - Thanks for the post. We agree that changing comp mod throughout the season is the direction we want to go in. We are currently doing that this season.

We want to pick up on your ideas/points towards the end of the current season. Things like neurotoxin have been added to make the game more fun. But yes, most of our changes are balancing out the vanilla stuff. and I could see how you may think there isn't enough NEW stuff.

Keep sharing ideas, we will definitely consider new stuff to add to comp mod. I've heard about eliminating the passive upgrades on marines before. This will need a lot of consideration and time to get it right if ever go down that road, but it would be fun to explore.
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