Banning people for rejoining the gather.

Noky
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28 May 2019 - 06:46 CST
#1
When a gather ends, and a team calls GG in game, the game is over. We shouldn't have to wait for every person to F4 before we can join a gather. Lately, there have been a lot of bans handed out for such behavior. I don't agree with these methods. They are sloppy. It is causing more frustration than it is fixing issues.

Admins seem to be nitpicking at this idea of prematurely joining a gather by 15 seconds while you are currently in one. The rule should revolve around people that are currently playing a gather, and queued up for the next one for a long period of time, because if a second gather starts, they are unable to join.
loMe
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28 May 2019 - 20:10 CST
#2
The problem occurs when one person on the team is tilted and prematurely calls GG when the rest of the team still wants to play. Consensus of when it's actually GG is not always clear. I've had discussions about what kind of rules you could implement to avoid this such as if you captain calls GG its over or if 3/6 F4 it's GG, but I don't think you're gonna find a good solution to this issue. If it's by whoever is captain, you're giving them too much power, that if they tilt and want out they can just call GG. A lot of the time it's the commander that calls GG and people just F4 because they have no commander left so I don't think 3/6 is the best idea either.

When it's like 15 seconds before the actual GG I don't think it's an issue and I doubt admins are really nitpicking about that. But when there's like 16 people queuing for a gather waiting for the previous one to end you run into this issue of people doing whatever they can to get into the next one. Some people are joining up before any public declaration of GG when they know their team is about to call it. I don't know how you can police that unless you have the Gather page up and are watching both the game and the gather page at the same time, while listening to both channels in TS3.

Only thing that I think you can do is if it's super blatant, like 4-5 people from one team joining the next Gather before calling GG then reset or kick those people. But if you reset it's kind of disadvantaged the people who were already queued and not playing.

I've not heard any decent ideas other than stuff that would require a lot of coding to link server data for when round "officially" ends to the gather page, but honestly not worth the time for such a small issue. I don't think people need to be banned for the offense unless it's like joining more than 4-5 mins before the round ends, but I think it's best to just kick people that are sneaking by like a minute before it's over.
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28 May 2019 - 22:45 CST
#3

loMe says



When it's like 15 seconds before the actual GG I don't think it's an issue and I doubt admins are really nitpicking about that.




they are, gungho kicked 10 ppl like 3 days ago because nobody waited for the banner

i think the admin team is going to try to start enforcing this, so i think a discussion is warranted

there's a VISIBLE log to everyone with timestamps on when they join the gather, idk why this is so controversial. either ENSL needs to make an announcement that NOBODY can join before the banner and actually enforce it with gather mods/gather refs EVERYTIME or just leave it like it currently is:

like lome said, kick ppl who join gather before GG (anyone can tell there are timestamps) and leave the rest



loMe
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28 May 2019 - 23:42 CST
#4
Yeh that's kind of dumb of Gung-ho. I mean if you are going to be strict like that, you should probably announce that those are the rules from now on. I would recommend not doing that however since joining before the "official" banner has been common practice as long as I've played.
Noky
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29 May 2019 - 08:47 CST
#5
9. Don't join the next gather until the existing gather is clearly over and the "Marines/Aliens Win" logo is shown.

[p] Joining a gather too early will get you removed, along with a 3 minute timeout

I would like to propose a change to the rule:
"Don't join the next gather until 3 or more people have returned to the readyroom, the "Marines/Aliens Win" logo is shown, or one of the teams has agreed to forfeit the match."

Premeditated joining by a person or persons in the gather, with the intention of selfishly reserving their spot, will result in being removed, along with a 3 minute timeout.

Reasons:
(1) The current rule doesn't take into account that people use the quit feature which results in a disconnect. Consequently, a team has to take extra time to finish the game by killing all the hives or chairs of the opposing team.

(2) There are often solo lifeforms that remain in game after their team has left the server. Their purpose? Express their glory by running through vents and finding 1v1 situations they can fight through. This can drag on for minutes if the player chooses to abuse vents.

(3) The rule doesn't clearly specify other means to end a round. Such as, forfeits or half the team returning to the ready room.
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29 May 2019 - 14:00 CST
#6
What we do with this rule is being considered but it still applies for now.
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29 May 2019 - 19:01 CST
#7
Tbh I would love to see a technical solution for this. I know that the NSL servers can be configured for gathers so maybe we could link that to the gather page. In a way that you can't join a gather aslong as you are playing in a round on a gather configured server.

Same as I would love to see a way to sign up for gather over shine menu tbh
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29 May 2019 - 19:54 CST
#8
Tbh that's not worth the time or effort to create. I mean if someone wants to work on it for the fun of it by all means go for it. However even with a coded solution you could still have people holding the next Gather hostage by not F4-ing and turtling when their half their team quit already. But I think the better solution is to add an "unofficial GG" kind of rule as mentioned. Perhaps 3/6 people on opposing team have called GG or are F4'd.
Noky
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30 May 2019 - 00:46 CST
#9

Mephilles says

Tbh I would love to see a technical solution for this. I know that the NSL servers can be configured for gathers so maybe we could link that to the gather page. In a way that you can't join a gather aslong as you are playing in a round on a gather configured server.

Same as I would love to see a way to sign up for gather over shine menu tbh




There might be a simple solution (I am not a programmer):

When a player clicks "join gather" they are placed into a visible player bank that loads groups of players into the actual gather every 1-2 minutes (the time is subjective). If a gather is overloaded it randomly selects from the player bank. The timer would start when the first player joins the player bank.

How difficult would this be?

additional thoughts:
It could even rank the players (in order of succession) that were not included as backups in case a player leaves before the teams are picked. These players are then automatically loaded into the gather when someone leaves.
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30 May 2019 - 03:38 CST
#10
How about punishing people who GG without team consensus / ragequit (you dont really want them to play the next gather anyway)? Then a GG could be relied upon and it could stay as it has been for many years: As soon as someone types GG, you are free to reg the next Gather.

Team concensus could be vote concede (is it still broke?), or someone asks in voice "Can we GG?" and at least 2 others agree.

The latter could be hard to enforce tho, since if there is no admin in the team, the teammembers of the offender would need to report.
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30 May 2019 - 03:41 CST
#11
Aren't we doing that already when the rq'ing person gets reported?
DCDarkling
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30 May 2019 - 04:40 CST
#12
I dont see the problem here..

If someone falsely GGs id say that is not upholding sportsmanship. And hey, thats in the rules.
If someone gathers up before the match is done, thats also not allowed by the rules.

Punish both and be done with it. Its in the rules, why do people need to be told not to do it? We all read the rules and agree to uphold them by actually playing.

The NSL has way to much history by being to subjective with the rules. Just apply them and lets go.
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30 May 2019 - 05:00 CST
#13

loMe says

Tbh that's not worth the time or effort to create. I mean if someone wants to work on it for the fun of it by all means go for it. However even with a coded solution you could still have people holding the next Gather hostage by not F4-ing and turtling when their half their team quit already




Technically he/she/they cant hold the Gather hostage since the winning condition is "kill all hives/ccs" and with 6 aliens/Marines on the map how long can this actualy take like 1-2 minutes...

comes down to moderation again
a gather mod should probably just kick the delaying ppl...

ALSO what stops you from joining the winning team and help ending it faster ?
did i miss a rule against that ? ^^ maybe we need a rule to prevent that ???

and if you have delaying ppl on both teams well what can you say kick everyone..
Noky
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30 May 2019 - 05:17 CST
#14

DCDarkling says

I dont see the problem here..

If someone falsely GGs id say that is not upholding sportsmanship. And hey, thats in the rules.
If someone gathers up before the match is done, thats also not allowed by the rules.

Punish both and be done with it. Its in the rules, why do people need to be told not to do it? We all read the rules and agree to uphold them by actually playing.

The NSL has way to much history by being to subjective with the rules. Just apply them and lets go.




Banning people isn't fun for the admin or the player.

Not all rules are withstanding, and need to be adapted to provide equity among all situations. I think this rule can easily be altered to avoid situations where admins need to take action. The suggestion that I have given could easily clear up a lot of work that's currently requiring a lot of policing from admins.
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30 May 2019 - 05:55 CST
#15
Either the rules need to be changed or the punishment needs to be adjusted. But rules should be uphold.

If you make any exception than when does it count?

I am not saying action X always is punishment Y. We can put a lesser to severe on that.
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