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- Extra-Staff
- NSL Mod (Creator) Coder
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- 64
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- United States of America
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- 11 April 2012
I know all about the command, but that requires a ref to manually key in that command each round per map. I'm talking about it being automatically set on the corresponding maps per week.
I don't think this change would alienate 1 div, from what I remember most players supported random spawns provided they were not horribly unbalanced (like old veil).
As a final note, I cant tell if you're intentionally wording posts the way you are or its just my misunderstanding, but there's no need to turn this into an Us vs Them kinda argument...
- Posts
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- 25 October 2009
There are no hidden meanings or sarcasm in my post (I can see where some choice italics can change the tone). I am being honest and trying to ignore the posts that troll or are disrespectful. There is no reason we can't foster an environment where everyone is heard and valued for the ideas brought up. No idea is bad, but some are misguided. If that is the case it is in the best interest of both parties that it is resolved so the idea can be refined instead of dismissed out right. (See any interaction with Rant. She excels at this.)
I understand the premier guys and what they were saying. The change comes down to personal preference. No ones opinion is more valid than another in this. I hate RNG and avoid it when I can. If you don't want to code it, that's fine. As I learned from other threads it isn't worth the argument. If people want it, there are always other ways to do it.
My idea would be to ask the nsl and pug server admins if it would be possible to add this command to the server config file and whitelist it so everyone has access.
If that is not possible I can see if Peron8880 is willing to add the command to shine.
Gotta remember Simba, Wob gets a boner every time he gets to talk about Descent vents... don't say I didn't warn you.
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- 16 November 2012
Even if it is muddling inelegantly through sv_resets, practical week to week implementation isn't really the issue. The presumption is that certain spawns confer huge benefits and sway matches that are likely insurmountable and fixed spawns would make it more "fair". This is a scapegoat akin to ping, where the traditional thought is that low ping always gives the inherent advantage. I don't think the effects of certain spawns or ping gives teams wildly out of hand advantages/disadvantages as long as teams understand how to play under those circumstances. The focus then becomes on strategy like the OP and others who are advocating this change want. The root seems to be that losses need to be blamed for something out of the control of players other than strategies or their performance. "It's the map/spawns... ping!"
Choosing fixed spawns isn't really a problem. It's easy for me to choose spawns each week. I just don't see the demand for the option after reading through both threads. It's basically Tachi, who doesn't play on a team, and 2 people from the same team saying they'd like the option and the vast majority, from premier to middle div players, saying they are lukewarm on the idea and/or would prefer random spawns.
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- 24 June 2012
Stop fighting! You're making me sad!
As far as I know, aren't we going to have some weeks like it's always been (random spawns) and some weeks with fixed spawns?
Then why are we arguing? everyone wins!
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- 24 June 2012
It's another dimension of potential skill for teams. Being able to prepare and have ready strategies for all different spawns. If one team is more prepared, experienced, exposed than another, more power to them.
Ram Ranch
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- Sundsvall, Sweden
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- 3 November 2012
Fixed spawns? No thank you, just because the games would be so... simple minded? Or like almost every game would look the same, and especially if you would cast... Didnt we try this on Tram? With not Forced spawns, but dedicated hive spawns and cc spawns, like 1 week marine started shipping, and next week it was Warehouse?
And what i remember, many people didnt like it, cause you take away the suprise moment in the + the "flexibility" in many strats and the actual fun in the game. But that's my opinion and what i've picked up from it the last time.
Over.Extension
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- 30 August 2013
If we'd already had fixed spawns, I don't think people would be praising random spawns as something that makes the game more skillful. Like maps, the spawns aren't equivalent and have different nuances or some completely different strategies, demanding different things of the teams, but for some reason this is OK because it's part of the map and people need to deal with it. Saying each team should be prepared for any spawn seems no different to me than each team being prepared for any map, just with a smaller scope. This isn't consistent with other league rules, like finding middle ground for pings (2 home servers or 1 middle) or splitting advantages so both teams benefit (one picks team, one picks map). It's perplexing to me how many problems with this game get explained away as being a matter of skill rather than recognized as balance issues or game design missteps. As for fun, we play different maps each week, so I'm not sure what the random spawns are really adding.
We're grumpy
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- 6 April 2013
As already stated, random spawns add for each rounds and games a tiny bit of surprise and challenge. You have to face with different spawns and so strategies whatever the maps and whatever your opponent.
I agree there are spawns that can maybe procure a small advantage or drawback regarding of a few maps. But here again, this is part of the game, is your team good enough for winning a round on every spawns of the said maps? You've asked to be in Division 1, that means, you have the ability to play on every maps, every servers and start on every spawns without being too much affected by these conditions (ping, spawns, maps), at least, in my opinion. Perhaps I could understand some requests from Divisions 3 and 4 teams and players because that is mostly Aliens wins and there's a few maps the Aliens can be easily advantaged even if this is not unfair or what. But nobody complained from their teams and I know some of them in these divisions that do not care about spawns.
This is a part of the fun, random spawns and give a better surprise for both teams and caster(s).
Honestly, I don't get the point comparing this with other league rules. It seems to me absolutely different. Those have been made to make the matches as fair as possible but everyone knows this is definitely not possible to make it perfect.
Picking side and maps have nothing to do with this subject 'cause they only occur during playoffs and according your score for the regular season.
“It's a dangerous business, Frodo, going out your door. You step onto the road, and if you don't keep your feet, there's no knowing where you might be swept off to.”
el'pheer
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- 7 May 2005
Just for the sake of saying it, if you're going to start counting "votes" you might want to actually make a proper poll instead of bickering between yourself about merits of such a small number of people who've written to this topic. I'm pretty sure there's more people involved in the league than you guys are counting.
Personally, in respect to the fixed spawns i can agree with the argument that every team should be able to change their strategy accordingly to the spawns, in a perfect world.
But there are some clear differences to this, as mentioned in regards to lower divisions there will be harder times for teams who get horizontal spawns on descent, or those who get atrium on summit. If those teams that are struggling for whatever reason, would know in advance their spawns they would be able to pull more effort and solify their teamplay. I would see that a gain for the sake of a "good game", rather than a negative .Not just from their perspective, but for those potential spectators.
Ultimately, people should have the choice.
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- 10 December 2012
This bickering is pointless. Back to the topic:
I actually kinda agree that random brings something unique to every game, but also random is random, which is inherently bad in comp imho. Some spawns are really a bit worse and can snowball easier than others, atrium, server, .... What I would like to see is the same spawns for teams in 1 match. Problem is how to achieve that. I think it's not only yes random, no random, but also no random but how to do it. Announce with each week, let teams pick before the match, sv_reset 2nd round until same as spawns as first? Some of these are obviously not so smart, but what would be so bad about if teams could choose starting side and enemy would choose spawns (Maybe not even we want shipping spawn, but say pair of spawns).
So say Tram will be played, 1st team likes to finish with aliens, so they pick marine to begin with, other team, chooses warehouse/shipping pair of spawns, because they don't wanna deal with server cause their early engagements are not strong enough. On the other end this would lead to some spawns never being played. Should we force teams to play on the spawns they don't want tho?
As some said, it could help lower div teams in this regard. I guess it shouldn't matter to div1+, but it's still RNG and I don't like that.
el'pheer
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- 7 May 2005
Uhm, or you make it very simple and add poll's for separate weeks, and you go by them.
example;
Summit spawns
Option1 Alien Atrium vs Marine Sub
Option2 Alien Sub vs Marine Atrium
Option3 Alien Data vs Marine Flight
Option4 Alien Flight vs Marine Data
Then you have the options to go with w/e wins for the first time the map is played, the second most voted for next time, etc. This would negate the same way played all the time, and at the same time have the spawns played that "people" want.
This is assuming people want fixed spawns, you should really ask that first. And yeah, not for all divisions, i wouldn't mind playing with fixed spawns personally but i don't really care either way. :p
pubstars
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- 225
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- Germany
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- 28 September 2009
i might be a bit much fantasie but:
What if each team can chose the Spawn like Fighter selection on Street Fighter.
Like that the Commander gets even more influence at the start
and the team can actualy prepare a tactic but has to adopt to a new situation pretty fast
also its a +1 to make ns2 unique ;)
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- 9 December 2013
Just do random spawns, fixed spawns seem boring as fuck and people who bitch about it just need to man the fuck up.
