Stop hating each other. We should've done a ladder, people didn't want it and in the end it was decided by the prem players that ladders would suck (CAUSE THEY APPARENTLY DIDN'T WORK IN THE PAST?)... whatever. Play this season now, get done with it, and hope we get to implement a ladder for the next season. End of story.
IF you already have to discuss new options one day before the signups end please be nice to each other, I'll start crying when I read any more hateposts
You're french, you're meant to hate brah, stop lying to yourself! As soon as you guys hear someone say "Riot or strike" the whole freaking nation goes wild! :D haha
I just looked through the only ladder thread I know of: http://www.ensl.org/topics/1279
I don't see any premier players shooting it down.... Just wondering where this stuff comes from. Seems like a lot of misinformation flying in this thread lately.
The ladder was discarded because it would be a bad idea to replace the season with it. The season format is more stable in regards to activity than the ladder format is. The season usually bring great activity among the teams during the group play period. Ladders tend to have a lot of activity in the beginning and then they stagnate(everyone have found their spot) and people get bored with it. Having both the regular season and the ladder would be the most optimal thing, they can alternate and compliment eachother. Official matches for everyone, all the time. Almost no downtime.
It's really simple, if the admins can make the ladder ready before the end of the group play, they can keep official matches going for the vast majority of the teams that are not going to the season playoffs. In a ladder they would at this point potentially be able to challenge the teams that beat them to the playoffs or any other team they would like to play against. Unfortunately the thing about ladders are that they are based on a challenge format, which means that teams have to take initiative to pick other teams to play against, instead of having handed premade matches by the admins. The usual trend with small ladders for niche games is that they die out very quickly, because the ladder stagnates due to the low team counts and every team will quickly find their place. Teams will stop challenging eachother because they get tired playing the same teams over and over. If we could have a ladder ready at the end of the season group play, it could serve as a test to see how quickly it will stagnate and then end it with some playoffs. I think it is what this community needs, more constant official games for the majority of the regular teams. Ladders and more cups in the off-seasons.
swalk and I may not always agree or even often agree, but this was what I wanted and was told that if the ladder wasn't the main thing... it wouldn't be worked on. So it was rejected.
Zefram, I know I complained about some things you did, but other than the few things I have complained about, you have done a great job during your time as admin in my opinion. A large number of people seems to think I had some kind of vendetta against you and you seemed to think that yourself at least at some point, but I really never did. I was opposed to some of the decisions that was made and protested about it because no one else had the balls or even noticed it.
But on behalf of the ladder; it's a ridiculous point of them to bring up, because the season and the ladder would just be two different main contest and they would not even run simultaniously. You could although run all kinds of cups simultaniously with the ladder, something you can not really do with the season. It would mean more official games, more fun. More NS2 for everyone. Everybody happy. There is no real reason why both can't exist. The ladder fits perfectly into the timeline of the current off-seasons.
EU/NA division group split is a pretty bad idea. If you EVER make groups within a division, the teams should be split equally in terms of skill, not location or anything else. If you don't split them equally in terms of skill, you will likely not get the most deserving teams to the playoffs. That would be unfair for the teams it negatively affects.
If you really just want to play lowping matches, do it in pcws or in the ladder. If they get that finished. If you want reliable lowping for the matches during the season, then you would have to tear it all apart and make it regional split leagues again. And I know that won't be near as interesting as what we have now with international games. I think it is really interesting to see how teams compare to each other around the world.
Also, NO to prolonged double elimination playoffs. That is a terrible idea, just look at the last few seasons. Playoffs should be 2 weeks. Semifinals and Finals and then NEXT contest, GO.
Seems like you didn't put more than two minutes of thought into this. Just "I want low ping" and "I want to be certain of going to the playoffs". I hope the admins will actually make fair division groups and reasonably short playoffs that doesn't last for months. Reaching the playoffs shouldn't be automatic for anyone, else the group play means NOTHING at all. The group play is meant to sort out the weakest teams and find the strongest.
Thats why there is a merge in 2 different playoff after groups
Thats why I'm really thinking about not playing ENSL but create a sort of EU tournaments with team which are interested.
International games are interesting. I'm not against them. I'm against the idea of playing half+ of international games. And I dont want to play AUS team. I already did, and this is just bullshit to play at 12 on sunday with 400ping on both side.
I never really understood the complaint about international matches due to ping issues, especially for any team not in premier. As the only NA team in premier, we had to play half our rounds on "high"/higher pinged servers. We'd never blame a loss or loss of enjoyment on the ping.
If you do the math, even if you're a team with HALF of your opponent teams on another continent, you're still only playing ONLY 25% of your total rounds per season on a "high"/higher pinged server. 1 out of 4... one fourth.
It's part of the reason I didn't understand why people were so vehemently against certain maps, considering you'd play 4 rounds of a map/maps out of 24 or 28.
It's a small percentage and even if ping was a major issue, which it isn't, it's a sacrifice to keep the entire community healthy.
International games are interesting. I'm not against them. I'm against the idea of playing half+ of international games. And I dont want to play AUS team.
Also ping isn't the main reason for me, the main reason is scheduling. Why should we play high ping at 16 on weekend while we can play ping at 21 every evening on week ? And I won't talk about playing AUS for EU cuz it is just a joke (as it's for them) !
Also NA teams are really more used to high ping cuz your region is fucking huge. This isn't rare to see NA matches with ping around 120/150 While in EU almost everyone is between 20-80 nah ? As I said before, EU cry, yell and whine when they die around corners !
I'm not against new map, but they need to be balanced before to be introduced into ENSL Season... Also I dont understand why map are forced every week. I understand that's stupid to play again and again veil/tram/summit.
But a system like :
Week 1 map banned : tram summit veil
Week 2 map forced (the new maps like mineral or nexus)
Week 3 map banned : veil, summit, descent
Week 4 : ...
Even if you just ban tram veil summit one week on two, you let teams choose what they wanna play against other teams. But well, I must be a dreamer cuz it seems to be the same shit on a lot of different game.
This really is the heart of the matter. EU players are generally very sensitive to their pings because they're used to always playing with/against less than 50 ping. It's common for NA players to have up to 100 ping and possibly up to 150 if they're at extreme ends of the states even during intra NA games.
Now does 50 vs 150 ping matter? Yes.
How much? IMO, not very much at all. Going from 50 to 150 ping isn't going to turn you from a premier to a div1 player. It will very rarely change the outcome of a game. I'd guess that 99% of the time I see someone complain about ping, the ping wasn't what caused the problem. It's just an excuse to complain when something doesn't go your way.
I can understand the EU-AUS argument, though. It compounds when you start getting up to 200-300 ping. Occasionally you get 200 ping EU to NA or NA to EU, but most are around the 100 - 150 range with appropriate servers.
You then can make Narko EU NA groups.
So highest rated after group go on in a prem playoff.
Lower rated in a div1 playoff.
NEWS: It seems NA teams lobbied again with forfeit threats to make admins decisions balance their side.
My special correspondent tells me Titus mights have gone privately again in Mumble with the person in cause to try swaying the odds.
Coming from the guy who threatened admins with breaking up and segregating the community and blackballing teams during that whole retarded playoff nonsense. You're really abusing your clout in the community, man. Seems like everything you lobby for is about you, your team, and winning... and not always for the best interest of the collective scene. When did you go off the deep end and start spreading half truths and rumors?
TROLL: Nothin about what's happening here or about current seeding but there is a funny thing about Zefram : when he was head-admin, no one could have seen him on the forum. And now he's here.
Always here. Always read everything. Just because I chose not to respond to most of the posts, because let's be honest, over 90% of the stuff here is pointless, didn't mean I wasn't active or personally replying to people. It's generally pointless to post anyways. People will nitpick posts just to suit their argument and further their agenda rather than have a true debate.
But hey, let's continue the absentee admin rumors or that the NSL was dead for the last 6 months. There was only a full season and 5 events you could have signed up for since summer.
