Fairness and SKINS

3X4L7
Noavatar
Posts
5
Location
Earth
Joined
24 July 2015
24 July 2015 - 14:31 CEST
#1
https://www.reddit.com/r/ns2/comments/3e5egn/are_ns2_micro_transactions_p2w/

Hi, I want to speak for the 4.5% of us who are colorblind but mainly for myself.

I hate how people with more money have the advantages of using whatever skin they have at their disposal. The shadow skulk is better in the dark, the default skulk is better on infestation, and the foliage one for the foliage.

Yes people can make points to how either one of those are easier or harder to see given a certain situation. BUT isn't that the point to be had?

If fairness was the goal of competitive play then wouldn't you want everyone to play with the same skins?

People state over and over again to me that skins are just cosmetics and are not P2W

http://unknownworlds.com/ns2/files/2013/09/BlackSkulk.jpg

Can you really suggest to me that a default skulk wouldn't be much easier to spot in this given situation?

Lets say it's just me who thinks this: Lets stay it's only 4.5% of the population who are colorblind could see the difference... That's still 1 out of 22.22 players.

Mephilles
5803
ELOgain
Modder
ns2_docking2
Posts
331
Location
Germany
Joined
29 September 2013
24 July 2015 - 17:08 CEST
#2
might only be me but I think you would be able to see this skulk much easier if you turn off shadows and those trees in the background using ns2+ I think it was... but since I am not completely colour blind I can't tell you if that helps at all
Wob
Noavatar
B L I N K
Posts
296
Location
United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland
Joined
18 January 2013
24 July 2015 - 17:40 CEST
#3
I'm really sorry that you are colour blind and can't enjoy this computer game much like how it sucks for people with one leg who can't play football.

You play with the hand you're dealt with.
loMe
6335
Alski Syndrome
Posts
183
Location
United States of America
Joined
29 June 2014
24 July 2015 - 19:02 CEST
#4
If you make the game less aesthetically appealing, seeing things on the map becomes much easier. I use the following settings:

-Texture Quality = Low
-Particle Quality = High
-Shadows = Off (some people leave this on)
-Light Quality = Low
-Anti-Aliasing = Off
-Bloom = Off
-Atmospherics = Off
-Anisotrophic Filtering = On
-Reflections = Off
-Infestation = Minimal

The game wont look as cool, but you will see things much better and probably have a nicer frame rate. There are also some NS2+ options that you can mess around with but I'm not gonna go into those right now.

Tbh, I think its dumb that people use custom skins because it makes it easier to call out targets: "Shoot the Dark Fade" or "Focus the White Onos."
3X4L7
Noavatar
Posts
5
Location
Earth
Joined
24 July 2015
24 July 2015 - 19:52 CEST
#5
loMe says
If you make the game less aesthetically appealing, seeing things on the map becomes much easier. I use the following settings:

-Texture Quality = Low
-Particle Quality = High
-Shadows = Off (some people leave this on)
-Light Quality = Low
-Anti-Aliasing = Off
-Bloom = Off
-Atmospherics = Off
-Anisotrophic Filtering = On
-Reflections = Off
-Infestation = Minimal

The game wont look as cool, but you will see things much better and probably have a nicer frame rate. There are also some NS2+ options that you can mess around with but I'm not gonna go into those right now.

Tbh, I think its dumb that people use custom skins because it makes it easier to call out targets: "Shoot the Dark Fade" or "Focus the White Onos."


Okay aside from me. Since this is the Feedback area of this website.

Would the game seem fair to enforce the same skins for everyone during competitive play?

Do people honestly believe that it doesn't make a difference and is it worth continuing if some other players believe it did? Such as 1 out of 22.22 people...

Doesn't the shadow skulk appear as the advantageous choice to make if one wishes to fight in the dark? Others have tried to point out colors on such, but do those colors stand out in the dark even to those with out color blindness, even with the video setting like ours. I assure you I do not play with max setting either.
lebra
4566
REFORMED
Posts
141
Location
no., Iceland
Joined
17 January 2013
24 July 2015 - 20:23 CEST
#6
I can't take you seriously, never seen you before and this seems all like a planned joke. After reading your reddit thread I find it even more humourous, it's almost like all of your replies are copy-paste no matter the argument.

You probably play the game with maxed out settings for the most -immersive- experience & then complain about not being able to see. You're saying this game is pay2win when you've mentioned nothing but the shadow Skulk, is that because you realize the others offer no advantage or should we expect more threads that cover the other skins?
Now you try to bring this into the competitive scene & ranting about fair play, should we force everyone on the same ping & computer setup aswell?

Your settings: http://i.imgur.com/MeJdCRf.jpg
Recommended: http://i.imgur.com/XwbiGbP.jpg
You're right, I see no difference even if that would be a shadow skulk.
I'm also colorblind.
Kappa.
herakles
2242
Posts
126
Location
Versailles, France
Joined
17 February 2011
24 July 2015 - 23:13 CEST
#7
I want a snails sticker on my SG.
Wob
Noavatar
B L I N K
Posts
296
Location
United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland
Joined
18 January 2013
24 July 2015 - 23:24 CEST
#8
herakles says
I want a snails sticker on my SG.


I would get you to sign mine, scratch that shit off so quick, then sell for £0.10
BauerJankins
5841
nazi hunter izO
Posts
368
Location
Paderborn, Germany
Joined
20 October 2013
25 July 2015 - 03:45 CEST
#9
Lambo took 76 seconds to change his settings to what he thinks the other guy has. That's a bit 2 slow imho, he should be kicked from d/y thx
http://i.imgur.com/hr1ud2u.png
3X4L7
Noavatar
Posts
5
Location
Earth
Joined
24 July 2015
25 July 2015 - 09:01 CEST
#10
Lambo says
I can't take you seriously, never seen you before and this seems all like a planned joke. After reading your reddit thread I find it even more humourous, it's almost like all of your replies are copy-paste no matter the argument.

You probably play the game with maxed out settings for the most -immersive- experience & then complain about not being able to see. You're saying this game is pay2win when you've mentioned nothing but the shadow Skulk, is that because you realize the others offer no advantage or should we expect more threads that cover the other skins?
Now you try to bring this into the competitive scene & ranting about fair play, should we force everyone on the same ping & computer setup aswell?

Your settings: http://i.imgur.com/MeJdCRf.jpg
Recommended: http://i.imgur.com/XwbiGbP.jpg
You're right, I see no difference even if that would be a shadow skulk.
I'm also colorblind.
Kappa.


Why wouldn't I jab that the weakest link, and also try to avoid personal jabs?

Maybe I didn't make myself clear in the other thread, but I do not use the settings as BlackSkulk.jpg.

Compare your picture MeJdCRf.jpg to BlackSkulk.jpg instead.

Perhaps, my point doesn't hold water in a modded sub community where every edge is acceptable........ Yet, is it fair to everyone?

I do understand not having the access to a black skulk and default skulk to compare on the same graphic settings,..

I understand people trying to say that I have graphic setting that aren't competitive. I bet, however, that with your setting I will still call it as camouflage. .....edit: but I'm sure I'll complain about where you put the alien and did your two shots... I think all of this is just avoiding my intended argument that skin choice gives a set selection of camouflage choices.

Another edge that is acceptable here but is based on the purchasing of skins by the rich who can pay and pay more unlike some who meet their price and happy to be among peers.
Wob
Noavatar
B L I N K
Posts
296
Location
United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland
Joined
18 January 2013
25 July 2015 - 13:10 CEST
#11
Seriously, the only thing in those 3 screenshots that makes things change is the bloom/atmospherics effects.

THERE IS NO (substantial) EDGE TO DIFFERENT SKINS. Everything you think you're complaining about is negligible to the average person.

If you want to help yourself and other colourblind people (btw no one else in the community has so far complained on the front of colourblindness) then advocate for forced client side skins. That still will disadvantage you because you are more likely to get lost when trying to keep track of 1 out of 3/4/5 lifeforms in an engagement. But hey at least you'll be able to distinguish them when ambushing more easily...

loMe says

Tbh, I think its dumb that people use custom skins because it makes it easier to call out targets: "Shoot the Dark Fade" or "Focus the White Onos."


...but you can't have it both ways...
lebra
4566
REFORMED
Posts
141
Location
no., Iceland
Joined
17 January 2013
25 July 2015 - 14:08 CEST
#12
3X4L7 says
Lambo says
I can't take you seriously, never seen you before and this seems all like a planned joke. After reading your reddit thread I find it even more humourous, it's almost like all of your replies are copy-paste no matter the argument.

You probably play the game with maxed out settings for the most -immersive- experience & then complain about not being able to see. You're saying this game is pay2win when you've mentioned nothing but the shadow Skulk, is that because you realize the others offer no advantage or should we expect more threads that cover the other skins?
Now you try to bring this into the competitive scene & ranting about fair play, should we force everyone on the same ping & computer setup aswell?

Your settings: http://i.imgur.com/MeJdCRf.jpg
Recommended: http://i.imgur.com/XwbiGbP.jpg
You're right, I see no difference even if that would be a shadow skulk.
I'm also colorblind.
Kappa.


Why wouldn't I jab that the weakest link, and also try to avoid personal jabs?

Maybe I didn't make myself clear in the other thread, but I do not use the settings as BlackSkulk.jpg.

Compare your picture MeJdCRf.jpg to BlackSkulk.jpg instead.

Perhaps, my point doesn't hold water in a modded sub community where every edge is acceptable........ Yet, is it fair to everyone?

I do understand not having the access to a black skulk and default skulk to compare on the same graphic settings,..

I understand people trying to say that I have graphic setting that aren't competitive. I bet, however, that with your setting I will still call it as camouflage. .....edit: but I'm sure I'll complain about where you put the alien and did your two shots... I think all of this is just avoiding my intended argument that skin choice gives a set selection of camouflage choices.

Another edge that is acceptable here but is based on the purchasing of skins by the rich who can pay and pay more unlike some who meet their price and happy to be among peers.

Spend less time trying to write a poem & more trying to debate your topic, only thing to be considered relevant is you understanding the difference between the graphics.
If those screenshots had a shadow skulk, there wouldn't be any difference, the skulk obviously stands out. If you're having issue seeing the skulk, you're dealing with something far more than color blindness.

You'd think being color blind would give you a harder time with seeing moving skulks than stationary.
Wob
Noavatar
B L I N K
Posts
296
Location
United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland
Joined
18 January 2013
25 July 2015 - 14:24 CEST
#13
Lambo says

You'd think being color blind would give you a harder time with seeing moving skulks than stationary.


No, movement would probably help because of the defined borders. Think camo skulks for normal people; easier to see when moving
3X4L7
Noavatar
Posts
5
Location
Earth
Joined
24 July 2015
25 July 2015 - 16:12 CEST
#14
Calling out my color blindness is being cheep if you already agree there's an advantage or disadvantage.

The wall texture and the color of skin will match somewhere and the difficulty to see one skin verses another will be possible.

I cannot complain about the female skin, because everyone is given such for free.

I have 2,800 hours of public play, Let me admit that my settings and maps could be vastly different than the games you play here: I know the image above shows a much different backdrop than I expected to be challenged with.

Perhaps with such differences, skin are truly negligible, and I should be kicking myself for trying to get you all to change your mind on skins.

Yet, in the heart of Family, Class, and Fun, could you consider cutting out the showboating of skins and badges. They are only for those who can afford to dish out more and more cash. Which would be fine by me in a F2P game where people who bought the game knew what to expect. Did I say buy? I meant 'download' the game.

Thanks for your time.
ryssk
Noavatar
Ram Ranch
Posts
319
Location
Sundsvall, Sweden
Joined
3 November 2012
25 July 2015 - 17:05 CEST
#15
3X4L7 says
Calling out my color blindness is being cheep if you already agree there's an advantage or disadvantage.

The wall texture and the color of skin will match somewhere and the difficulty to see one skin verses another will be possible.

I cannot complain about the female skin, because everyone is given such for free.

I have 2,800 hours of public play, Let me admit that my settings and maps could be vastly different than the games you play here: I know the image above shows a much different backdrop than I expected to be challenged with.

Perhaps with such differences, skin are truly negligible, and I should be kicking myself for trying to get you all to change your mind on skins.

Yet, in the heart of Family, Class, and Fun, could you consider cutting out the showboating of skins and badges. They are only for those who can afford to dish out more and more cash. Which would be fine by me in a F2P game where people who bought the game knew what to expect. Did I say buy? I meant 'download' the game.

Thanks for your time.


*********

Edit by Pelargir: your words ryssk, please.
Wob
Noavatar
B L I N K
Posts
296
Location
United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland
Joined
18 January 2013
25 July 2015 - 17:44 CEST
#16
I don't think there's anything wrong with having skins you think look cool and to use them when they provide little to no benefit/disadvantage.

I think they are nice extras UWE threw in to those who support the game.
3X4L7
Noavatar
Posts
5
Location
Earth
Joined
24 July 2015
28 July 2015 - 05:47 CEST
#17
Wob says
I don't think there's anything wrong with having skins you think look cool and to use them when they provide little to no benefit/disadvantage.

I think they are nice extras UWE threw in to those who support the game.


I'm under the impression that you cannot view your own skin (being FPS).

Is it for Show off? Respect? Hubris?

If we were to allow everyone to such instead of the rich, then I'll agree that it's cool. However, those who think like me (I must be unique), will disagree and think your skin is lame.

How many times are they going to sell NS2? I know I don't want a marketplace inside NS2, because I know I can't keep up with the economy of Europe.

REINFORCEMENT:
"$260,000 from approximately 4,900 people" $53.06 on average...

Twice the price of the game... So, yeah... I know why my opinion doesn't matter.
herakles
2242
Posts
126
Location
Versailles, France
Joined
17 February 2011
28 July 2015 - 15:08 CEST
#18
Yo wich team do you play on?
loMe
6335
Alski Syndrome
Posts
183
Location
United States of America
Joined
29 June 2014
28 July 2015 - 16:25 CEST
#19
3X4L7 says
I'm under the impression that you cannot view your own skin (being FPS).

Is it for Show off? Respect? Hubris?

If we were to allow everyone to such instead of the rich, then I'll agree that it's cool. However, those who think like me (I must be unique), will disagree and think your skin is lame.

How many times are they going to sell NS2? I know I don't want a marketplace inside NS2, because I know I can't keep up with the economy of Europe.

REINFORCEMENT:
"$260,000 from approximately 4,900 people" $53.06 on average...

Twice the price of the game... So, yeah... I know why my opinion doesn't matter.


So what is this about again? Color blindness? Competitive advantage? Or the fact you don't like that people are willing to pay for extras in a video game? I have zero badges or skins, paid $10 for this game 2 years ago, and play the game at the highest level. You can buy this game today for less than $5 on G2A.com. I'm not sure why your coming to the competitive scene about this when we've already gone through aches and pains of creating a balanced level of play.
Hyste
Noavatar
Posts
104
Location
France
Joined
9 March 2014
28 July 2015 - 16:48 CEST
#20
Maybe you could just change the contrast of your monitor ?

Wob
Noavatar
B L I N K
Posts
296
Location
United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland
Joined
18 January 2013
28 July 2015 - 18:01 CEST
#21
What do you think about Squad 5 badges which are given out based on volunteer work to support the game?

What's the difference between volunteer work and financial support?
Pelargir
5291
We're grumpy
Posts
452
Location
Lyon, France
Joined
6 April 2013
31 July 2015 - 01:20 CEST
#22
Start a petition, convince 51% of the competitive community that you're right and I will make your dreams come true. Good luck!

EDIT: more seriously, keep this thread cleaned and don't spam it with unrelated stuff or/and jokes null and void.
“It's a dangerous business, Frodo, going out your door. You step onto the road, and if you don't keep your feet, there's no knowing where you might be swept off to.”
New Reply