There are few enough important roles that require a "job advertisement". Perhaps head admin and league admin.

Rantology said : " people who are willing to put in the work, listen to other people and generally strive to be productive and helpful community members have all "risen to the top""

Other "jobs" like referees, casters, advertisers, comp mod, CDT, are given out to those who offer their help. It doesn't take a genius to ask one of the top established people (Zefram, Pelagir, Rantology, Wasabi) to see if they need help with any particular thing or to tell them you have a particular set of skills that can help them in any way.

Don't be fooled into thinking that because you aren't being asked to do something, that you are being shut out. That's just victimising yourself for retarded reasons.

Don't be fooled that by contributing you are also helping. If you contribute an idea, it might be a bad idea and shot down. Deal with it. Likewise it might be a good idea, but you might get toxic feedback. Deal with it.

I agree that the forums should be more heavily policed [censored] to try and curb the toxic nature breeding and to help promote critical discussion.

Wob says

I agree that the forums should be more heavily policed [censored] to try and curb the toxic nature breeding and to help promote critical discussion.

You're probably right but it means editing all Australians posts. :)

I'm not signing anything made by this nazi closet racist piece of retarded mongoloid that is izo. Fuuuuuck youuuu.

Are you a samurai bro? Cause to me you sound like Schwarzy eating a fat black cock.

LOL

@Ryssk,
http://forums.unknownworlds.com/discussion/135573/community-development-team
http://forums.unknownworlds.com/categories/general-discussion

There's the team, go ahead and ask them, that's the forum you should talk about CDT, not this one. Have fun.

--

But really, there is absolutely no reason to have divisional admins. All its going to do is make simplistic things more complicated. What you really want are not 'admins' per say, you just want ideas in comp mod to go through a voting process. At least that's what I gathered from that novel.

This 100%.

This topic is another grand example of how diluted people in this community are, you've got people resorting to complain about Titus having too much power when their idealogy is proven to be outright stupid, and not agreed by a majority. Or simply those who have no thoughts of their own, just trolling for the sake of random discomfort. I applaud Zefram/Rantology/Dragon to have had as much composure as they've had against a such crowd, even if they've made mistakes of their own, they have been doing an outstanding job and i can't see anyone in this community fit to pick up the slack in the same way.

TL;DR. You want to give feedback, feel free to do so, but don't be suprised if it's neglected when it's bad.

herakles says

I'm not signing anything made by this nazi closet racist piece of retarded mongoloid that is izo. Fuuuuuck youuuu.

Are you a samurai bro? Cause to me you sound like Schwarzy eating a fat black cock.

LOL

This is not censured only because he's French okay?

Pelargir says

herakles says

I'm not signing anything made by this nazi closet racist piece of retarded mongoloid that is izo. Fuuuuuck youuuu.

Are you a samurai bro? Cause to me you sound like Schwarzy eating a fat black cock.

LOL

This is not censured only because he's French okay?

OH OK!! WHY DONT WE JUST RENAME NSL T0 FRENCHNSL????

I don't think this is good idea Izo. I quite agree with Rant and Wob.
But this might be offtopic, maybe make another thread about it, but Fiskbit is right about toxicity on the forums in threads where it shouldn't be. From all the time I have been with ENSL/NSL I know trolling and bit of BM is part of the culture, and can be fun at times, but maybe we should add a rule if someone marks topic as serious, all this shit doesn't fly. Like what the fuck Hera...

herakles says

I'm not signing anything made by this nazi closet racist piece of retarded mongoloid that is izo. Fuuuuuck youuuu.

Are you a samurai bro? Cause to me you sound like Schwarzy eating a fat black cock.

LOL

You guys should chill a bit.

The goal of this post wasn't to start a war about CDT COMP MOD,
or Titus ns2 world come on !

I'm not agree with this idea of 1 admin / division cause it's too complicated.

It is already a mess with the current system (and there's only one or 2 people handling this),
so I do not imagine how it could be better and clearer with 10 people taking decisions.

The point here, even if iZo's idea is not good for me, is not to dispute about who can manage
the league or who's making bad decisions.
It doesn't matter against who you're fighting for (which is really entertaining xD, thanks for it),
but truly sad for the league.

We should take the chance from this post to try to find a better way to improve this current
nsl/ensl system because apparently it's working but not as good as it should be.

Anyway WTF RANTOLOGY Oo :

rantology says

From my experience with the ns2 community over the years, people who are willing to put in the work, listen to other people and generally strive to be productive and helpful community members have all "risen to the top" if you will. You can see this with the entirety of the CDT roster, the ENSL staff and those who consistently contribute to Cmod.

It's not that the lower divisions are being denied representation, it's that there has been no one who is willing to put in the work and dedication to do it (and do it well).

So my 2 concerns with this kind of mass democratic voting system is:

#1. The elected admins will not be dedicated enough nor be able to invest the time and thought into their duties. You will not be able to just pull reliable, reasonable individuals that people can trust to vote for their interests out of thin air. If such people existed, why are they not on the Cmod team or NSL staff already? It's been stated the door is open to both of these teams a millions times. It's because no one wants to bother with these responsibilities.

and #2. is that simply you'd never get anything done. No way are you going to get 5-6 people to agree on anything when the system is so big an spans so many divisions. This is assuming you can get mythical perfect admins who are unbiased, not trolling, and dedicated. (which I doubt would be possible given how vulnerable the voting system per-division would be open to being)



The existing entities are already very open to public sway. Imo the best way to get representation and subsequent changes, if you feel they are needed, is to find people who share your views and are willing to dedicate a small amount of time on a consistent basis to represent you. Have them contact Zefram to join the NSL staff or myself/dragon/golden/anyone else involved with cmod to join the Cmod team. Because 90% of the time, all we see are complaint threads on the forums, when the reality is that anyone is open to contacting any of the 'powers that be' and if you deliver a well reasoned and detailed argument, it's likely that you will be listened to. But again, it's finding the people willing to do this that is truly the hard part. A lot of people would rather grab their torches and pitchforks on the forums and argue endlessly about how 'the man' is holding them down than try to put forth rational arguments for the actual issues.

As kind of an afterthought, it's also extremely difficult to gauge interest or support for a given issue in this community. A lot of times it appears to be just a small number of individuals who are claiming something is a problem, but how do you know if the majority of the community agrees with it? They certainly don't post on the forums. Especially when there is usually an equally small number of individuals vocalizing opposite views. Usually all there is to go on is hearsay and the minor amount of people who are being vocal about it. But there is no real way to know. This is something that will always be a huge problem, regardless of what kind of admin system you use.


this is just my 2c to what I found to be a reasonably posted topic, so thanks izO for not turning it into a flame fest or anything by calling out names or something in the OP. +1

@Chb, YOU SUCK. YOU DO NOT TELL ANYONE TO CHILL FUUUUUU. :(


Also, You want to elevate or improve the current system, you might actually specify how you intend to do that. Cause i've seen no reasonable thoughts or a complaint other than a lot of banter, with no back thought what so ever.

I doubt anyone is against improvement, but it's really hard to take some people seriously when all they do is post random gif's or phrases that borderline something out of a child that doesnt know any better.

Also, Pelargirl is a bad at everything he does and should sell his laptop for a boobjob.

It's a good idea to have a representative of each division that hold it's interests. But it should not be an "admin" of any sort, just a representative in regards to what should and shouldn't be in the compmod. One team or one division should not have monopoly. It's kind of funny to see those exact people reject this suggestion. Seems like someone don't want to lose that monopoly..

You would want to avoid have "division admins" that are also players in the division. Usually such an admin would be to support the league admin, but Zefram is keeping up fine with the help he got now it seems. So "division admins" are kind of irrelevant.

Wob says

OH OK!! WHY DONT WE JUST RENAME NSL T0 FRENCHNSL????

+1 FRENSL

WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Added examples
http://www.ensl.org/topics/1229

Examples:
admin work gets shared, its less work after all and One admin isnt responsible for everything.

Admin work gets more complicated because people like to step on each other's toes. I've seen it happen in previous NSL leadership.

if something happens to the main admin (illness accident reallife) the League isnt Busted because of one Headadmin.

Now you're just grasping at straws. The league already has other admins that are capable of making calls.

in case the one admin and his group want to make hillarious changes, they cannot without community confirm.

Vague? If you're talking about game changes, they would have to go through the entire Comp Mod team first. If you're talking about league rules, Zefram almost always asks for feedback on rules and has changed several of them from said feedback in the past.

NationCup Example: Nobody ever wanted 1 map only and the NSL alone decided it against the NationTeams because they are to Busy already for well organising and community wishes.
(Team Captains disagreed with that Rule, but it was ignored with the words: who the f#ck cares)

You're talking about the recent Nations cup which had almost 0 interest and only 2 matches were actually played? Yeah, must be the admins fault there for making it a 1 map tourney.

Example about Kodiak, even other NSL admins Blamed Kodiak to be unbalanced and not ready to be played in NSL but one Head admin decided to add it without askin the community, he did it because one of his bros admited it.

I am pretty sure he wants to include it so people actually play it. The map isn't that great but it's not as horrible as people make it out to be.

Zefram & Co did some good work for NS2 but its just time for a Change.

Hey its Obama's campaign staple.

Let's recap what happened in the last few days. A head admin finds out that there may possibly be a large minority of players who are extremely disgruntled and want a major change in how policies are formed in the community and maybe much more. He found out not through the "mob" leader himself, but through rumors and goes out of his way to confront this person because he's genuinely concerned that this is true. Concerned because if there is a large number of people that are unhappy, maybe there's a way to make the situation better. The head admin decides to delay the season a few days to a week to listen to whatever demands they have and try to reach a compromise. Wow, the commencement of matches were HALTED on the whiff that the community may not be pleased in the hopes that maybe a middle ground could be made and people pleased? That DEFINITELY sounds like someone who doesn't listen and blatantly ignores the community.

Not only has this thread been a massive waste of time, we've derived few to no practical solutions and it really weakens potential outcries in the future, because I'm really getting tired of this kind of shit. Overly dramatic and overly sensationalized ways to get a perceived unheard voice heard. Instead of actually messaging someone, let's just use the method that attempts to create the most drama.

When I talked, izO, I was called "Hitler", "an asshole"... mentions of "TitusMod", "Titus NSL", "a new Rome for the NSL"... "over 100 supporters". With accusations and words so strong, you'd think there'd be something much more substantial presented and more supporters coming out of the wood works. I'm actually quite disappointed with your presentation after words so bold. As for supporters, where are these 100+ people you mentioned? I want to believe you and give you some credibility, but without these 100, it just seems like you were trolling me. Mission accomplished if that's the case.

izO says

NationCup Example: Nobody ever wanted 1 map only and the NSL alone decided it against the NationTeams because they are to Busy already for well organising and community wishes.
(Team Captains disagreed with that Rule, but it was ignored with the words: who the f#ck cares)

Example about Kodiak, even other NSL admins Blamed Kodiak to be unbalanced and not ready to be played in NSL but one Head admin decided to add it without askin the community, he did it because one of his bros admited it.

Zefram & Co did some good work for NS2 but its just time for a Change.

I've been willing to listen, but now you're just making things up. With little interest in this summer's events with the draft tournaments and few registered for the Nations Cup and the tournament riding so close to the season, I didn't see a reason to lay a heavy burden of matches/maps for teams participating. On top of that, not a single team or captain that's registered for the Nations Cup has voiced their opinion/complaint on the format to me through PM or a forum post (that I'm aware of).

About ns2_kodiak, I used this summer's events as a testing ground for the viability of a map and see player feedback, because while I value my teammate's opinion, he/they are definitely and have never been the last word. Is that so out of line? To use events that people deem less important than a season? In my opinion, the map is a nice change of pace and a viable competitive map. How many of you have actually played a 6v6 with balanced teams on it before you formed your opinions?

Also, let me remind you that my VERY first action when I became the league admin, in the middle of season 3, was the removal ns2_caged from the rotation (it was unplayable at the time). And why I did I do that? The community said it was unplayable. That pretty much set the tone for all my actions for this league since. I've proven time and time again that there is an open forum of discussion and that decisions I make are mainly based on the pulse of the community when there are solid thoughts presented.


Can I get back to organizing our season? According to the majority of the voices in this thread, it seems like that's really what the community wants.

Schedule out before week's end.

Zefram says

Can I get back to organizing our season? According to the majority of the voices in this thread, it seems like that's really what the community wants.

Schedule out before week's end.

Please

ALL HAIL HYDRA! Oh, wrong forum

Duivel says

This forum... I troll that
Nazis... I hate that
Killing fades...I do dat

Bop baboom shazaaam ...POP

I'm not a rapper.

Cr4zy_ says

Zefram says

Can I get back to organizing our season? According to the majority of the voices in this thread, it seems like that's really what the community wants.

Schedule out before week's end.

Please

Pretty please

Sorry for this late replay but i could assign some free time to read trough all this earlier then this.
well i try to consider a lot of oppions thats why i answerd to every part kinda seperated no need to replay that detailed.

Mephilles says

aslong as all divisions play with the same mods, meaning the same compmod version, and same maps (saying aslong as all divisions play exactly the same game) I am fine with that

OFC that is still to be the Case they have to find a accordance what to do.

joshhhy says

But really, there is absolutely no reason to have divisional admins. All its going to do is make simplistic things more complicated. What you really want are not 'admins' per say, you just want ideas in comp mod to go through a voting process. At least that's what I gathered from that novel.

Not only Comp mod ideas a some kind of voteing process for example a new map, if you play 2 maps or 1 if you play swalks "team has to win bouth rounds to get a point format" well basicly everything that affects the players.


Pelagir says

... I was and still am against admins per division. Especially on a such game with a small community and around 150 players only.

We had 2 ideas divison admins and the possiblity to make it with teamleaders if you remeber and the whole thing wasnt to make the drama or make the ensl delay anything, the intention was to improve things.


? says

Well, it'll reduce the amount of clusterfuckery in the lower divisions and make them more composed. At least a step in the right direction.

That was the intention asswell to force the lower divisons to actualy give a oppionion since its pretty natural for higher divs to take more part on the ensl then lower divisons.


Neoken says

If the competitive scene was much much larger, so having everyone voice their opinion individually on a public forum would be unmanageable, there might be a point. But looking at the size of the current compscene, I don't see any use for this idea.

its more like each divison votes 1 representative divison admin so you have later only 4-5 oppinions but at least one of from every divison.

Neoken says

Players within a division will undoubtedly disagree on things anyway. So then you'll have people complain their "chosen" representative is not on thesame page as they are. It'll just overcomplicate things and slow down progress.

is that much diffrent from now i agree its not the final solution. we have a other concept with every teamleader in charge instead of divison admins but well its all a concept.


Neoken says

Keep it simple, if you disagree with a certain compmod change or tournament rule, discuss it on the forums, and then you're voice has been heard.

Thats indeed simple but still the chance of people dont give a fuck is high.



rantology says

From my experience with the ns2 community over the years, people who are willing to put in the work, listen to other people and generally strive to be productive and helpful community members have all "risen to the top" if you will. You can see this with the entirety of the CDT roster, the ENSL staff and those who consistently contribute to Cmod.

Sounds pretty natural since your in the CDT in the compmod and whatsoidk so you spend a lot time there so it might be possible that your oppion is a bit baies (dont get me wrong i have the standpoint everyones oppinion is baised on no matter what and being 100% unbaised is impossible)

But beside that im sure its possible to find people that will consistently contribute to the ensl community in that case.


rantology says

It's not that the lower divisions are being denied representation, it's that there has been no one who is willing to put in the work and dedication to do it (and do it well).

i agree the concept will softforce them to get a representive divison admin.

[quote=rantology]
So my 2 concerns with this kind of mass democratic voting system is:

#1. The elected admins will not be dedicated enough nor be able to invest the time and thought into their duties. You will not be able to just pull reliable, reasonable individuals that people can trust to vote for their interests out of thin air. If such people existed, why are they not on the Cmod team or NSL staff already? It's been stated the door is open to both of these teams a millions times. It's because no one wants to bother with these responsibilities.
[quote]

true the whole concept basicly implys a bit "perfect world" the goal is to get the "perfect world" touch out of it with still sticking as near to the wished concept as possible.


rantology says

and #2. is that simply you'd never get anything done. No way are you going to get 5-6 people to agree on anything when the system is so big an spans so many divisions. This is assuming you can get mythical perfect admins who are unbiased, not trolling, and dedicated. (which I doubt would be possible given how vulnerable the voting system per-division would be open to being)

TRue they dont have to agree on anything but since they can only vote yes or no and not maybe and are forced to vote you get results no matter what and as soon as a result it 51% in one direction you gotta act ofc thats also the reson for a uneven number of divison admins.

The danger with trolls being elected is there ofc yes but if the majority is rly trolls in this league its even without this system a hard time.


rantology says

The existing entities are already very open to public sway. Imo the best way to get representation and subsequent changes, if you feel they are needed, is to find people who share your views and are willing to dedicate a small amount of time on a consistent basis to represent you. Have them contact Zefram to join the NSL staff or myself/dragon/golden/anyone else involved with cmod to join the Cmod team. Because 90% of the time, all we see are complaint threads on the forums, when the reality is that anyone is open to contacting any of the 'powers that be' and if you deliver a well reasoned and detailed argument, it's likely that you will be listened to. But again, it's finding the people willing to do this that is truly the hard part. A lot of people would rather grab their torches and pitchforks on the forums and argue endlessly about how 'the man' is holding them down than try to put forth rational arguments for the actual issues.

I kinda see it in the doing a decision right in the first place and if you have more voices in place the chance that your decision will match with the majority is much higher.

because as you noticed yourself people like to whine/rant about stuff but not rly going to contact the people that they have to blame for that.

i agree sadly pitchforkes are allways liked.


rantology says

As kind of an afterthought, it's also extremely difficult to gauge interest or support for a given issue in this community. A lot of times it appears to be just a small number of individuals who are claiming something is a problem, but how do you know if the majority of the community agrees with it? They certainly don't post on the forums. Especially when there is usually an equally small number of individuals vocalizing opposite views. Usually all there is to go on is hearsay and the minor amount of people who are being vocal about it. But there is no real way to know. This is something that will always be a huge problem, regardless of what kind of admin system you use.

True sadly not everyone has the balls,time orwhatever it still needs to actualy raise a soild oppion on the forum.

rantology says

this is just my 2c to what I found to be a reasonably posted topic, so thanks izO for not turning it into a flame fest or anything by calling out names or something in the OP. +1

thanks for so much input a flamewar wouldnt archive anything anyway.

Simba says

This system is too complicated, but clearly the current system has failed. Don't blame Titus or Zefram for that, because most of you "ignored" people are to blame. There are plenty of ways you can voice your opinion and be heard. You just have to take the 20 seconds to reach out to them and make a clear and REASONABLE argument. Bitching about a change with no evidence or piss poor reasoning will get you nothing.

i agree i think even the concept still needs to have people to contact the these divison admins so that will not change much about that.

ANY other ideas how to get more feedback heard are welcome.


Simba says

Also, if you post about a change you don't like, but most of the community disagrees or beats out your argument, get over it. You lost. Perfect example is the recent challenge to commander PRES. The argument was made, many more people disagree with it, the change is probably going to stay. Adapt and get over it.

Sounds like the concept voteing system we have on paper there will only be yes and no votes and the admin number must be uneven so every vote will lead to a result.

Simba says

You want democracy? Let's simplify your suggestion, OP, because yours wont work. People and teams jump divisions way too much for it to work, and your system calls for way too much time and attention to calling votes and revotes. People will have no interest in the tedium that it creates, and more often than not, those voted won't be doing their duties.

True the whole process is ofc more time intesive then the currect way and so much bureaucracy will turn people probly away.
it kinda ends up like politics i fear.
Im not exactly able to present a solution for that beside the consolation that in theory the majority got heard trough a voting in there oppion trough more voteings in representatives in theory.


Simba says

Make 3 seats. Community votes people into these seats. Comp mod and NSL activities and run through these 3 representatives. Don't like an existing rep? Find someone willing to take his place and run a vote. Keep the current dude or fill with new dude.

sounds like the concept with an unequal number and representatives divison admins with votes about nearly everything.

Simba says

The 3 dudes can kick Zefram off his "seat of power" if they dare, but must be prepared to replace him with someone equally masochistic and capable of suffering.

I see where you coming from yes the suspectvoting possibilty is kidna copyd from politics and the german constitution so you have a possilbity to replace people in case they fuck up much, but in practise just look at politics it happens like onl very rarely.


Ryssk says

The strange thing is what i see from these posts in this thread that actually rantology made a hell of a good reply, with good things in them, and a good answer for Izo's thoughts

While 2 other members from the CDT team writes their reply like they were hit by an rock on the head and dropped as a child from 5th floor, way to pick the staff!

Agreeing thanks for all this good thoughts rantology.
Saying people are baised is well ofc they are nobody is unbaiesd ;)


Ryssk says

Oh and btw, where are the requests for more members to the CDT team? Cant seem to find them anywhere, it would be so nice to actually see an article post where you girl/boys explain what the "job" concerns about, what's expected of one and another person, and how much involvment you expect from them!

Yes i dont wanna go into the "more transparentcy in the cdt please direction again"
but it should be somehow obivious how people can constrbute to the CDT, Compmod Team, or the ensl otherwise we need tutorials in these directions what is need where who to contact ect.





Seb says

2 people? what? I only see 1? And you can hardly blame people for being frustrated with all the undeserved shit slinging that is going on.

idk to what you mean with that.. but nvm....

Seb says

I believe that was the point Rant was making, that it isn't 'job description first, apply second' its if you are already contributing something great to the game or the community, you will get noticed quickly and you let things go from there. Its not a job, its a bunch of people trying to improve a dying game in their spare time to put it bluntly, therefore no expectations or anything like that. It is whatever you can contribute.

I agree in a small community everyone knows everyone that constributes something but this thing is more about having more decision makers in place for each divison 1 admin.

Seb says

I really don't understand the notion that the CDT or comp balance team or anything is some kind of elite club, because its not very hard to get in y'know? Prove that you have something to say, that is intelligent, well structured and thought out CONSISTENTLY and I'm sure that you would be welcomed with open arms.

I agree but in that case you gonna select eigther CDT to work on the game or comp mod to work on the comp balance or the ensl to help the ensl league.
but the idea was simply to have people a say in comp balance+league and everything that affects players in the ensl from a standpoint as a normal player+divison admin but with a oppinion that has to be considerd.


Fiskbit says

The main problem I see with this community is its attitude, and this thread is yet another example of it. In response to a perceived problem and a possible solution, there was a lot of hostility, trolling, and dismissal. The people behaving this way are the same ones who do it in other threads where feedback is requested or solutions are proposed, and it really discourages people from speaking up. There's a fundamental culture problem here where opinions are disregarded because of who they belong to and where any disagreement leads to escalation, and I've only seen it getting worse with time. Thankfully, not everyone behaves like this (this thread is much better than most), but there are too few of those people to make things work as they should. I don't see these issues so much in the areas of the UWE forums where competitive players don't post as much, and that makes interacting with the CDT and others there so much more pleasant and welcoming.

As you said its sadly a culture problem so you gotta judge what you want more entertainment with more trolling ect.
or more respect for input no matter where it comes from and have more oppinions heard.


Fiskbit says

In response to rantology, I don't think people were aware that we could actually join the Comp Mod team, or that there were open NSL positions from which one could actually make a difference. If it was said, I suspect I missed it. However, I'm also not sure why holding those positions should be that relevant. Doing that doesn't change the person and it doesn't make them better at constructing useful contributions. The value of someone's input is unrelated to how that person is labeled, and that's especially important in a community this small where there are so few voices that each one represents a large percentage of the whole. I'm glad that some of those running Comp Mod are open to feedback and want to hear what people think, but we have a problem where people's voices are silenced and made unwelcome by a vocal minority, which runs counter to your goals. I can honestly say I would have jumped at the opportunity to work with the Comp Mod team and help improve the game, but putting up with months of bad behavior has really killed that drive and left me frustrated. I'm not alone in that sentiment.

I agree every oppinion is allready a big part of the whole community in this small community.

And about the "join the Comp mod team" to have a stauts to have a say i hope you see the misttake in this sentence cause not being in the comp mod team (or CDT or ensl) makes you still able to have a vaild point about something so if you want to improve things please allways consider these points from people that are not in these groups.


Fiskbit says

I cautiously support the OP's idea because I think it's a way to allow less-skilled players to actually get a say in this toxic environment. I probably wouldn't have an opinion on it if we did a better job of moderating people's comments here to keep the attitude in check, calling people out when they're actually misbehaving, and nudging people toward higher-quality discussions without so many logical fallacies. That's the real solution we should be striving for, but a culture shift is much harder than a rule change. That said, I believe that culture shift needs to happen if this community is going to endure.

I kinda know what you mean with culture shift but would you rly like to control and moderate everywhere 100% full cencsorship to keep the forum look "clean" ?= there probly then will be BM over steam ect idk.

Wob says

There are few enough important roles that require a "job advertisement". Perhaps head admin and league admin.

Rantology said : " people who are willing to put in the work, listen to other people and generally strive to be productive and helpful community members have all "risen to the top""

Other "jobs" like referees, casters, advertisers, comp mod, CDT, are given out to those who offer their help. It doesn't take a genius to ask one of the top established people (Zefram, Pelagir, Rantology, Wasabi) to see if they need help with any particular thing or to tell them you have a particular set of skills that can help them in any way.

Don't be fooled into thinking that because you aren't being asked to do something, that you are being shut out. That's just victimising yourself for retarded reasons.

Don't be fooled that by contributing you are also helping. If you contribute an idea, it might be a bad idea and shot down. Deal with it. Likewise it might be a good idea, but you might get toxic feedback. Deal with it.

I agree that the forums should be more heavily policed [censored] to try and curb the toxic nature breeding and to help promote critical discussion.

good input how people should deal with bad manners ect butthis kinda sounds like you have to ask for permission todo something for the community what it probly shouldnt mean it should be more like synchronise what you want to do with them so bouth party dont do the same and probly people can even help each other ect.

Iots says

@Ryssk,
http://forums.unknownworlds.com/discussion/135573/community-development-team
http://forums.unknownworlds.com/categories/general-discussion

There's the team, go ahead and ask them, that's the forum you should talk about CDT, not this one. Have fun.


This topic is another grand example of how diluted people in this community are, you've got people resorting to complain about Titus having too much power when their idealogy is proven to be outright stupid, and not agreed by a majority. Or simply those who have no thoughts of their own, just trolling for the sake of random discomfort. I applaud Zefram/Rantology/Dragon to have had as much composure as they've had against a such crowd, even if they've made mistakes of their own, they have been doing an outstanding job and i can't see anyone in this community fit to pick up the slack in the same way.

TL;DR. You want to give feedback, feel free to do so, but don't be suprised if it's neglected when it's bad.

they indeed did a good job and if you have to chose if you put some prem div players or div4 players in charge of that ofc the prem div players will have probly better input

but i think for sure the div4 players will bring up some points that prem div players dont see similar simply trough this diffrent playstyle from div4 to prem div

and ns2 has allways players leaving so you gotta make sure the lower divisons feel well so you got more good player coming back up to the higher divs from there.


Chb says

You guys should chill a bit.

The goal of this post wasn't to start a war about CDT COMP MOD,
or Titus ns2 world come on !

I'm not agree with this idea of 1 admin / division cause it's too complicated.

It is already a mess with the current system (and there's only one or 2 people handling this),
so I do not imagine how it could be better and clearer with 10 people taking decisions.

The point here, even if iZo's idea is not good for me, is not to dispute about who can manage
the league or who's making bad decisions.
It doesn't matter against who you're fighting for (which is really entertaining xD, thanks for it),
but truly sad for the league.

We should take the chance from this post to try to find a better way to improve this current
nsl/ensl system because apparently it's working but not as good as it should be.

Exactly what this should be since its called "CONCEPT"...
but somehow people mainly explain whats bad instead of going to the whole thing what is a good idea and how to archive these good parts what is actualy sad. but i guess its human nature to do it this way.



[/quote]
Iots says

@Chb, YOU SUCK. YOU DO NOT TELL ANYONE TO CHILL FUUUUUU. :(


Also, You want to elevate or improve the current system, you might actually specify how you intend to do that. Cause i've seen no reasonable thoughts or a complaint other than a lot of banter, with no back thought what so ever.

I doubt anyone is against improvement, but it's really hard to take some people seriously when all they do is post random gif's or phrases that borderline something out of a child that doesnt know any better.

Also, Pelargirl is a bad at everything he does and should sell his laptop for a boobjob.

as mentioned earlier this trolling and missbehavoir has the bad potencial in stopping people in posting quality good feedback so plz stop unless you want a only fun place...


swalk says

It's a good idea to have a representative of each division that hold it's interests. But it should not be an "admin" of any sort, just a representative in regards to what should and shouldn't be in the compmod. One team or one division should not have monopoly. It's kind of funny to see those exact people reject this suggestion. Seems like someone don't want to lose that monopoly..

I have to see bouth sides so interesting standpoint from an ex admin taht could eigther means he trys to improve based on his experiance or to let the admins after him look bad so he looks good ;)

swalk says

You would want to avoid have "division admins" that are also players in the division. Usually such an admin would be to support the league admin, but Zefram is keeping up fine with the help he got now it seems. So "division admins" are kind of irrelevant.

I disagree. ofc zefram and others gets help but the question is from who how many percentage of these players play in prem and div1 and how many in div2 to 4 make the math urself as higher the divison as more people play and as more they give feedback ect certanliy a good thing.

BUT you gotta make sure the few feedback of the lower divisons still gets equal voices and thats one aspect of this whole concept.

Examples:
admin work gets shared, its less work after all and One admin isnt responsible for everything.

joshhhy says

Admin work gets more complicated because people like to step on each other's toes. I've seen it happen in previous NSL leadership.

I think this should actualy simply increase the votes on each decision so it dosnt appear singlevoiced ?

if something happens to the main admin (illness accident reallife) the League isnt Busted because of one Headadmin.

joshhhy says

Now you're just grasping at straws. The league already has other admins that are capable of making calls.

I think joshhy has a point there are allready ways to replace main admins but the concept would probly make replaceing a important person easier.

in case the one admin and his group want to make hillarious changes, they cannot without community confirm.

joshhhy says

Vague? If you're talking about game changes, they would have to go through the entire Comp Mod team first. If you're talking about league rules, Zefram almost always asks for feedback on rules and has changed several of them from said feedback in the past.

He indeed asked for feedback pretty good job on that Zefram but this should kinda MAKE SURE that it will not be Single voice decision.

NationCup Example: Nobody ever wanted 1 map only and the NSL alone decided it against the NationTeams because they are to Busy already for well organising and community wishes.
(Team Captains disagreed with that Rule, but it was ignored with the words: who the f#ck cares)

joshhhy says

You're talking about the recent Nations cup which had almost 0 interest and only 2 matches were actually played? Yeah, must be the admins fault there for making it a 1 map tourney.

Sad thing the Activiy and the organisation was too low to actualy play the nation cup out.

I think some teams/players actualy asked some leadership or the enemy if they can play a 2nd map and the answer from leadership was kinda like: "sure you can but it will be counted"

and the answer from some other players at some steamchats or TS3 where: "yes it should be 2 maps "

Example about Kodiak, even other NSL admins Blamed Kodiak to be unbalanced and not ready to be played in NSL but one Head admin decided to add it without askin the community, he did it because one of his bros admited it.

joshhhy says

I am pretty sure he wants to include it so people actually play it. The map isn't that great but it's not as horrible as people make it out to be.

I would agree to that can we have Public votes about adding maps in the future i think it will be usefull.

Zefram & Co did some good work for NS2 but its just time for a Change.

joshhhy says

Hey its Obama's campaign staple.

Belive me more people then obama use this staple ^^
and changes are pretty good in these days of this fast changing world.



Zefram says

Let's recap what happened in the last few days. A head admin finds out that there may possibly be a large minority of players who are extremely disgruntled and want a major change in how policies are formed in the community and maybe much more. He found out not through the "mob" leader himself, but through rumors and goes out of his way to confront this person because he's genuinely concerned that this is true. Concerned because if there is a large number of people that are unhappy, maybe there's a way to make the situation better. The head admin decides to delay the season a few days to a week to listen to whatever demands they have and try to reach a compromise. Wow, the commencement of matches were HALTED on the whiff that the community may not be pleased in the hopes that maybe a middle ground could be made and people pleased? That DEFINITELY sounds like someone who doesn't listen and blatantly ignores the community.

Yeah this concept was like that in the google doc for like 2-3 weeks but i somehow didnt want to launch it off cause well it was a concept and i could easy identify most weakpoints myself and then suddly it was there...

Zefram says

Not only has this thread been a massive waste of time, we've derived few to no practical solutions and it really weakens potential outcries in the future, because I'm really getting tired of this kind of shit. Overly dramatic and overly sensationalized ways to get a perceived unheard voice heard. Instead of actually messaging someone, let's just use the method that attempts to create the most drama.

Well it did create a lot of drama true
as said when talking to a few other we actualy wanted to launch it like 2-3 weeks ago but i just thought it wasnt ready and didnt changed much beside 1-2 lines since then.

Zefram says

When I talked, izO, I was called "Hitler", "an asshole"... mentions of "TitusMod", "Titus NSL", "a new Rome for the NSL"... "over 100 supporters". With accusations and words so strong, you'd think there'd be something much more substantial presented and more supporters coming out of the wood works. I'm actually quite disappointed with your presentation after words so bold. As for supporters, where are these 100+ people you mentioned? I want to believe you and give you some credibility, but without these 100, it just seems like you were trolling me. Mission accomplished if that's the case.

Was probly a good reaction but im sorry it wasnt selled to you as what it acutaly is a "concept"

izO says

NationCup Example: Nobody ever wanted 1 map only and the NSL alone decided it against the NationTeams because they are to Busy already for well organising and community wishes.
(Team Captains disagreed with that Rule, but it was ignored with the words: who the f#ck cares)

Example about Kodiak, even other NSL admins Blamed Kodiak to be unbalanced and not ready to be played in NSL but one Head admin decided to add it without askin the community, he did it because one of his bros admited it.

Zefram & Co did some good work for NS2 but its just time for a Change.

Zefram says

I've been willing to listen, but now you're just making things up. With little interest in this summer's events with the draft tournaments and few registered for the Nations Cup and the tournament riding so close to the season, I didn't see a reason to lay a heavy burden of matches/maps for teams participating. On top of that, not a single team or captain that's registered for the Nations Cup has voiced their opinion/complaint on the format to me through PM or a forum post (that I'm aware of).

The same thing i hear like nearly dayly after a ensl or right in front of a gather people rant about random stuff like "this game has so bad hitreg" or "why has compmod/ns2+/cdt not done this or that" but they never actualy gonna rise this oppion on a forum post or contact a person that fills one of these "positions".
when i ask why they dont do something most say nothing but the realy bad thing is some people say
"i posted so often in the past and i felt like it wasnt heard why should i bother again"

THIS is rly what should be fixed the feeling that people have that they have not been considerd. (idk how honest they are about that)

Zefram says

About ns2_kodiak, I used this summer's events as a testing ground for the viability of a map and see player feedback, because while I value my teammate's opinion, he/they are definitely and have never been the last word. Is that so out of line? To use events that people deem less important than a season? In my opinion, the map is a nice change of pace and a viable competitive map. How many of you have actually played a 6v6 with balanced teams on it before you formed your opinions?

I Played just some Gathers and pugs and well its hard for me to judge with such shit performance on this map. but i think the middle ground is a huge alien playground where marines have a hardway passing trough.

So in my opinion if a map will suite for competive play is allready decieded on the graybox version of that if the map dosnt have the basics done right it dosnt fit for competive play and i think kodiak was just designed as a "pub map" (dont hate me if im wrong).

Zefram says

Also, let me remind you that my VERY first action when I became the league admin, in the middle of season 3, was the removal ns2_caged from the rotation (it was unplayable at the time). And why I did I do that? The community said it was unplayable. That pretty much set the tone for all my actions for this league since. I've proven time and time again that there is an open forum of discussion and that decisions I make are mainly based on the pulse of the community when there are solid thoughts presented.

I guess the first action has to be in the sense of the community otherwise there would be a outcry but anyway thanks for still beoing resonable on most stuff.

Zefram says

Can I get back to organizing our season? According to the majority of the voices in this thread, it seems like that's really what the community wants.

Schedule out before week's end.

Yes please dont stop the season or anything as said these things are suppose to be concepts so not done.
They have to be thought out public like in forum posts before they should be integrated anyhow

AS a final note we have a 2nd concept with teamcaptains instead of divison captain its allready written aswell since 2-3 weeks like the other concept but this time
DONT HATE IT TRY TO INTEGRATE THE GOOD PARTS OR TRY TO REWIRTE SOME PARTS TO MAKE IT WORK.

IT will be "only a CONCEPT" not a DO IT OR GTFO THING


thanks for patience everyone.

(not sure how and where to post it so its WIP )

(btw if i disagree to myself at some replay forget it it took like 4 hours to write this whole thing down...)

Why are you releasing your little concept one week before the season start? You had the whole summer to discuss this or finetune your concept and release it after the season.

I HAVE A NEW PETITION

* * * * * PLS SIGN YOUR NAME IF U AGREE. 100 SIGNATURES = 100 PRAYERS. PLS FORWARD TO 10 PEOPLE U KNOW OR SPOOKY GHOSTS WILL SPOOK U* * * * *

Seriously though, why the fuck are there all these petitions? If you guys have an idea, bring it up like adults. Make a post to address it. If you don't feel like it has gotten the proper attention, PM someone who can assist. I don't understand why this has to be an all-or-nothing, let's-overthrow-nsl thing. You can just make a post saying that you feel there should be additional admin(s) and have an open discussion about the best way to go about doing that. What has this thread even accomplished?

Too be fair it seems like this whole movement has already benefited the ensl as a whole, apart form highlighting what a bunch of assholes everyone actually is, we've had the best open discussion about seeding and it seems like people were actually listened too...
As long as the ensl admins stay as open as they have been with the seedings and acutally ASK people what they want or what they think... and this includes future events zefram! don't just set a time and a format. Run a thread and then a poll instead of pushing Titus gaming agenda.
The sad truth is that the ensl is a really unfriendly place and ideas and feelings need to be respected regardless of in game skill. The feeling of prem players having a overall majority and say over the direction of the ensl isnt right. But it seems like this is a step in the right direction at least.

start the season plz

oh and If a new player came on here and seen herakles calling izo a fucking german nazi cocksucker, what they gonna think? Can we get some fourm moderation back please
I almost got banned for saying i was gunna kick fana's teeth out and you guys let this shit fly?

skyice says

[...]The sad truth is that the ensl is a really unfriendly place and ideas and feelings need to be respected regardless of in game skill. [...]

oh and If a new player came on here and seen herakles calling izo a fucking german nazi cocksucker, what they gonna think? Can we get some fourm moderation back please [...]

These are probably the most important lines in this whole thread.