Amad says

Ironically the only tolerable group of prem div players were the snails, as much as I dislike French players in this community.

How can you dislike the French players? :(

I demand baguettes and snails for everyone!

I was told there were cheeseburgers.

There are no cheeseburgers.

I blame the CDT. Oh wait.

tbh the state of the community isn't the responsibility of prem div players.

No one likes french people. Stop spreading lies.

GORGEous says

Can't care for a community that doesn't care for itself.

If that is what you think is going on, then you are truly delusional.
If the same thoughts are also going through Zefram's head, then I guess it's time to get someone else who actually cares to take over, so we can give Zefram his life back. I would recommend Pelargir any day, if he wants the position of course. He is one of the most helpful and friendly admins this site ever had. I love baguette.

GORGEous says

Can't care for a community that doesn't care for itself.

This sentiment is pretty shocking. There are a few loud mouthed bigots who directly hate on / disrespect certain parts of the community (Leadership / prem div), but there are plenty of people who genuinely do want the community to continue and to flourish.

swalk says

If that is what you think is going on, then you are truly delusional.

This is equally delusional. It is true that certain people bite the hand that feeds it. The amount of abuse (fair or unfair) zefram gets is unbelievable. I always tried to defend decisions that make sense and criticise decisions that don't.

I flamed the main inputs of the comp mod team (Grissi/rant/dragon and zefram) when babblers made a come back and PvE was not addressed adequately. I also blame titus and comp mod for the alien lifeform upgrade loss after a 2nd/3rd hive was lost. I think these mechanics were not dealt with perfectly, but it has come to a point where you put your argument forward and then just accept the result.

On the contrary, I defended zefram when swalk tried to defame him as some sort of dictator, and also when skyice was saying there was very little transparency from the comp mod.

What a small portion of the rest of the community does is just looking for a scape goat or someone to hold accountable over their issues blown out of proportion. Izo and the whole delaying of season 5, Railo's team because they couldn't accept that they got beat by a weak godar team and were denied prem div, swalk for unknown reasons (character? "dark sense of humour", "don't care if I sound professional"), this puzzle bloke.

There's just been growing discontent for Zefram and most of it is literally due to a sense of entitlement a lot of people seem to have. You may think you're right and discuss it over pm, but if you're not willing to accept being wrong and the admin does declare that you are wrong, there is no need to be so aggressive in a public post to aggravate the situation. Just put it publicly and ask for 3rd party opinions. This is particularly helpful for everyone involved because it might be the case that the admin ruling you wrong, was wrong himself and other 3rd parties have explained why.

What often happens is people just bitch and throw mud around. No one really solves the issue, everyone is still mad, and the community fractures.

Wob says

Wall of text

You are really sprouting alot of nonsense.

Not really, GORGEous stated that he thinks the community(as in it's entirety) doesn't care. I stated that he is delusional, because I know by fact that I and many others do care about the community and the game. I am correct, he was not.

I never tried to defame anyone. When I came back after my break from NS2, I was overwhelmed with complaints about Zefram. In the beginning I was really dismissive about it, because I know how much critisism you get when in that position, it is simply the nature of the position. It happens because people care alot about the game and not everybody will agree with everything you do. There will always be someone who disagrees with what you do, no matter what you do. I was there myself, remember?

But as time went on, more and more things started to align with the things I were told. So I started to complain, not to defame Zefram, but to hopefully change his view and make the community happy with him. We all know that overall, Zefram have been doing a pretty good job and I have complimented him on that along the way even if I don't agree with everything he does/doesn't do. On the other hand, I don't want to stay quiet if I am not happy about something, just because of my previous position and peoples delusions that I have some form of agenda against Zefram. I don't, I recommended the guy for good reasons and I don't want the position back. I know alot of people who went along the path of; "it doesn't matter what I say, nothing will change anyway. So I don't say anything and find it hard to care anymore". I will not go on that path and it is the sole reason for me to start complaining after I got back from my break. I want to set an example for those people, that there can be found middle-grounds and change can happen. Even if it sometimes feels like telling Roxanne not to put on the red light.

Seems to me that Zefram, when he started out as lead admin at least, was trying his best though. There's just too much bitching about these days. I assume it's because people who've long enjoyed the game are getting more and more disappointed by the fact the community is slowly but surely shrinking towards non-existence, and are turning cynical because of it. But it's hurting the image of competitive play more than ever.

For new players taking a peek on this site, this does not look like an interesting competitive scene to join. Not just because of the negativity and trolling on the shoutbox and forums, but the lack of activity and updates as well. There's been more than 5 weeks between the last two posts on the front page for example. The way to keep a community alive as long as possible is to actively lead it with a positive attitude, which is missing lately.

And then there is also the general abuse you see when new (really green) teams do form and start doing PCWs. Not only do they generally get stomped due to lack of experience, they often get ridiculed in the process, turning them away from competitive play even faster. But that's another matter.

Anyway, if there's one thing I would blame, it's the lack of updates. But reading the last newpost, it seems like Zefram understood that. So let's just hope for the best again, and not continue all this negativity.

Amad says

This here is the absolute truth. It's sad and funny at the same time. When they finally reach that "prem" level, it's all downhill from that moment forward. I could name dozens of players who turned into completely asses when some higher division team opened their doors for them.

Ironically the only tolerable group of prem div players were the snails, as much as I dislike French players in this community. Most of them were / are extremely helpful towards new players and helps people with bad aim etc, that's the kind of attitude I would hope from all the higher division players.

I haven't seen too many players moving up to prem div tbh but I wouldn't call one of them being an ass. Also in my experiences other prem div teams are very willing to help players to improve aswell (for example 2eZ helped me)

http://www.infinitelooper.com/?v=sAhEFuq62-I#/6;9