Season 7 is coming up, and for that we need seedings!
Well with the new system we will be splitting a seeding list into groups of 5+ (all the same amount of teams if possible).

Well here is the list, please just post who should be where, who is better than who etc. If you want to play a seeding match to get higher up, please contact both me and the team in question.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1NHyAFgu-GQPCvQDfpwVZN1yp-yQshZjJTUZrVVpvlJY/edit?usp=sharing

5-6 not more not less.
AS I see it now it's 3 divs. Top div is quite clear:
----------
Lucky Chams
Do it yourself
Pell-Mell
Aegis
Bad Mannered
Handwashers
----------
In second div, we got some questions, is elpheer really alive? how does hms stand against tawtoise?
Remember, we don't really care if you are 8th or 10th, that doesn't matter, it's more about if you can fit into the group of 5-6. ofc sorting teams by relative skill helps a lot.
So AS I see it now:
----------
el'pheer
caste
GIEF ROBOT
potaTAW
Jolly Cooperation
Like A Glove
----------
TAWtoise
His Majesty's Ship
Flightless Lerks
AngryChickens
FunnyBubblers
-----------
EDIT: If Sector+ joins, and elpheer withdraws, as latest news seems to point to, we could move tawtoise someone to div 2 and still have 5 in div 3.
EDIT 2: moved aussies around as reports spruce up of some scrims
EDIT 3: Also Fortis seems like they want to sign up, so that 'someone' might be them.

What do you lovely people of NS2 think?

Funnybubblers are better than HMS, they were 3rd in division 3 last season.

Is Caste not just Tau-9 but with a new name? Maybe they should be higher?

Lastly, the skill difference in the top division is huge. I'm not sure what can be done to make it any better, the top 2/3 teams (d/y, chams and bm) will beat everyone else 4-0 and it is not very exciting for the other 3 teams knowing that the best they can hope for is 4th place out of 6 teams.

The thing is, that is ALWAYS the case, and always has been.
We are unable to throw them into a div consisting of just those 3.
Its just that some players will be better, but like Lucky Chams, they practiced like crazy against d/y and titus when it was still here. they put in a lot of effort to get up there.

But yeah, we can't just make a separate div for them, and lets not do the thing that happened last season AKA div of 10 teams. all divs will have an equal amount of weeks.

Yaluzan says

The thing is, that is ALWAYS the case, and always has been.
We are unable to throw them into a div consisting of just those 3.
Its just that some players will be better, but like Lucky Chams, they practiced like crazy against d/y and titus when it was still here. they put in a lot of effort to get up there.

But yeah, we can't just make a separate div for them, and lets not do the thing that happened last season AKA div of 10 teams. all divs will have an equal amount of weeks.

Yeah, as I said not sure what can be done.. Was just pointing it out.

I think all the teams in the top div can at least put up a fight and, if they improve, take a few wins.

Vindaloo says

5-6 not more not less.
AS I see it now it's 3 divs. Top div is quite clear:
----------
Lucky Chams
Do it yourself
Pell-Mell
Aegis
Bad Mannered
Handwashers
----------
In second div, we got some questions, is elpheer really alive? how does hms stand against tawtoise?
Remember, we don't really care if you are 8th or 10th, that doesn't matter, it's more about if you can fit into the group of 5-6. ofc sorting teams by relative skill helps a lot.
So AS I see it now:
----------
el'pheer
caste
GIEF ROBOT
potaTAW
Jolly Cooperation
Like A Glove
----------
TAWtoise
His Majesty's Ship
Flightless Lerks
AngryChickens
FunnyBubblers
-----------
EDIT: If Sector+ joins, and elpheer withdraws, as latest news seems to point to, we could move tawtoise to div 2 and still have 5 in div 3.
EDIT 2: moved aussies around as reports spruce up of some scrims

What do you lovely people of NS2 think?

This seems to be near perfect for what teams have signed up, 3 Divisions.

Moved Like A Glove, based on some scrim reports. Again, focusing on divs, not exact ordered placement.

When el'pheer withdraws don't move TAWtoise up. IMHO HMS and FunnyBubblers are quite stronger and one of them should be moved up in that case. Although I'm not sure which one, just ask them 'bout this, they will know best on their own.

As for your planing:
It's 100% sure Mega's Team will join the Season as well. Only reason for not having done it yet is we're not quit sure 'bout the teams name and Mega whining and not signing up, but he promised to do so on wednesday evening. So consider this in your planing. Thx.

I propose something like top div with only bm, lucky chams and diy - only that they play each other multiple times maybe. Like prem div in season 5. We shouldn't force the other teams to play against these 3, exactly because the skill difference is huge. And, imo, the skill difference between (for example) diy and pell mell is higher than the skill difference between pell mell and gief robot. What I'm trying to say is:

One division for DIY, Chams, BM - playing each other multiple times
One division for Caste, Pell Mell, Aegis, Handwashers (and maybe more don't know the exact skill of those teams, maybe gief and jolly cooperation or something)

TAWtoise has a big range in player skill (mid to pub). All our veterans are now casual ns2 players, playing for fun. While I think our weaker players really want to improve & learn. I'd much prefer to give the latter group more game time in S7. I think we'll struggle to have balanced games and play our whole roster in D2.

But I guess we could compete somewhat if we didn't field our weakest players (if you really need us in D2)

IIRC our strongest team drew our last 2 PCWs against Sector+. While the last few pcws with mixed skill teams where 4-0, 4-0 and 3-1 losses against Mega's and another team.

BauerJankins says

I'm late to the party

The format has already been decided and announced weeks ago.
To make it clear: all divs will have roughly the same size. No special cases.

Updated with the edit 3. So where would you put yourselves, Absurdon. Any PCWs vs Fortis for comparison, anyone?

Ok diy wanting to stomp lower teams confirmed, anyone jump in on the hate train against diy?

Seriously now, when has this format ever been open for discussion? Never ever? Because admins only do what they think is best now? No more input from the community?

More than half of these top div teams are not going to have a fun time this season, and everyone knows that. It's not like splitting the group would create more work for anyone, is it?

Don't want to come across as bad mannered like Bauer :DD

But, when was this decided? Was there ever public discussion over the matter?

....I think this is the discussion on the matter, BUT we can see what the format they are going for, if you can think off something better, then feel free to say, but right now, unless you split the top division into 3/3 games may only go one way, then again, there could be some upsets also.

Nah max, look at simple's rant, the admins have obviously decided on this long ago and won't change their mind. This thread is only there to say if the teams are where they belong in this super genious format

We decided on this after talking about it for a long time, each div should take the same amount of time to go through the season. If you complain about "Oh but top 3 teams stomp everyone" then thats the case in EVERY game you play, its just that we can't do anything else with this amount of teams.
Only 2 possibilities to balance high div play.
1. split up the stomping teams(which we will not do, its the players choice who to play with)
2. Hope the other teams in the div want to practice and get better like Lucky Chams did when it was just titus and d/y ontop.

We talked about this for ages, this system has been mentioned the moment we opened sign-ups so you had PLENTY of time to give input.

No matter what happens, not everyone will be happy. but thats how it will always be. I would love to have more equally balanced teams but we just don't.

And the main thing i keep hearing from having a division with just 3 teams is: You play the same teams twice, meaning score can just be the same as the first time. And you just play the same people, same playstyle etc. And you can't even call 3 teams a division/group, its too small.

Having teams drop-out mid-season makes it worse, giving div 1 just 2 teams for example.

Yaluzan says

2. Hope the other teams in the div want to practice and get better like Lucky Chams did when it was just titus and d/y ontop.

Just to put this into perspective, Chams (previously Gnarcolepsy) have been playing together since March 2014 (3 seasons ago, winning division 1 twice) and the players within the team have been playing competitive NS2 on the ENSL since the first season. My team Pell-Mell has been together since January of this year, only 3 of our players had ever played competitive before and that was in Division 4, and the remaining players came straight from public servers.

Chams had a chance to catch up with d/y, they were relatively close to there level, Pell-Mell, Handwashers and Aegis simply are not.

Pell-Mell will play in whatever division we are put, we won't forfeit or troll matches, however we would much prefer to play in a fair Division where everyone has a chance of winning.

Feel free to find us more teams then.

Now back on topic, we just need input on what teams to switch around in this seeding list before Friday night, since I'll make the contests then.

BauerJankins says

Complaining

How many seasons did you plan till now? Maybe, instead of thinking you know everything, try to understand the reasoning and the process of the decisions made.

We put a lot of work and though into this format to deal with a less-the-optimal situation and we announced our intention some time ago. You had plenty of time for giving feedback.

But coming now with a ridicules suggestion, on week before the season starts, and expecting everything to change? And if I tell you with clear and simple words, that the time for this is gone, you bitch and attack people on a personal level. How does that work in your world?
Nice move bauer.

simple says

BauerJankins says

Complaining

How many seasons did you plan till now? Maybe, instead of thinking you know everything, try to understand the reasoning and the process of the decisions made.

We put a lot of work and though into this format to deal with a less-the-optimal situation and we announced our intention some time ago. You had plenty of time for giving feedback.

But coming now with a ridicules suggestion, on week before the season starts, and expecting everything to change? And if I tell you with clear and simple words, that the time for this is gone, you bitch and attack people on a personal level. How does that work in your world?
Nice move bauer.

RolliePollie says

Yaluzan says

2. Hope the other teams in the div want to practice and get better like Lucky Chams did when it was just titus and d/y ontop.

Just to put this into perspective, Chams (previously Gnarcolepsy) have been playing together since March 2014 (3 seasons ago, winning division 1 twice) and the players within the team have been playing competitive NS2 on the ENSL since the first season. My team Pell-Mell has been together since January of this year, only 3 of our players had ever played competitive before and that was in Division 4, and the remaining players came straight from public servers.

Chams had a chance to catch up with d/y, they were relatively close to there level, Pell-Mell, Handwashers and Aegis simply are not.

Pell-Mell will play in whatever division we are put, we won't forfeit or troll matches, however we would much prefer to play in a fair Division where everyone has a chance of winning.

Just correcting a couple things you said about Chams. Only person that was on Gnarc from previous 2-3 seasons is Simba and kind of Ironf1st. Also this will only be my 3rd season in the NSL and it will be turtsmcgurts first season (he merc'd one match last season). Chams was getting rofl-stomped by Titus and D/Y at the beginning of last season but it only made us better and we went on to go 10-1 in the playoffs. I think there's huge potential to get better for teams playing against more challenging teams.

That being said I understand your concern. The problem is with playing in something like a 3 team division, if one team disbands (which will happen) your stuck playing only one other team for the rest of the season.

Even if there was more teams, currently the best teams / players that still play have already signed up? so even if more where to, they would play a seeding match and may not even make div 2, So the format is ok, it just gonna be hard games, but at this point in NS2, any team can come out with a win or at least take a round or 2 from another, it all depends on how you set up and play, If you Put in the time, then you all know you improve, Chams done it, they won, last seaon i would say D/Y had the better skill players, perhaps i still would, Chams tho dont get me wrong have amazing players also, but there teamwork was insane, So that proves that practice can and should get you places, and playing better teams and learning from them is the way to go.

But we all dont like being stomped.

seriously splitting up the top division into 3 players is a horrible move. that's what made godar, saunamen, titus and legendary snails disband (I guess, never asked them tbh). SO think more about the wealth of ns2 here instead of you own winning chances in the division

This system has never been announced officially and clearly so that everyone would have known about this. There WOULD have been VERY MUCH negative feedback, because this is just not right. I don't know how much work it is to put a seeding list together, but tbh I don't think it's a lot of work with only 17 teams in a season. Can we just have a clear reason for why these things can't be changed? 3 teams in one division would totally work out, even if it would mean that bm would only get stomped, I'd be happy about that as long as the other teams in s7 can have their fun.

Everyone I've talked to now has voiced only negative feedback about this seeding, including a diy member which some people might have not thought possible. In fact, diy is probably more pissed about this than most

You can't put caste in division 2
You can neither put aegis, handwashers or pell mell in division 2, unless you move the lower div2 teams into div3
Meaning you can't move caste up into division 1
-> caste will stomp div 2

I'd really like to know WHY we can't still change this.... singups aren't even closed yet and nothing can be done about this anymore?

Mephilles says

seriously splitting up the top division into 3 players is a horrible move. that's what made godar, saunamen, titus and legendary snails disband (I guess, never asked them tbh). SO think more about the wealth of ns2 here instead of you own winning chances in the division

How would this have made the top 4 teams disband? This is not only about anyone's winning chances, this is about teams just not having any chance at winning the division no matter what they do - some teams just don't try as hard as lucky chams did which is why they shouldn't be placed in div 1.

ALSO: teams playing each other multiple teams during a season has worked just fine in season 4 and 5 prem div. WHY would you change this now? It's not like map schedules will be followed strictly anyway, because sometimes it's not possible to schedule the matches in one week's time

ALSO^2: bm has played aegis a few days ago, resulting in 8-0 score. The other day we played a diy MIX (!!) and got "stomped" like 0-6 or something

BauerJankins says

Seriously now, when has this format ever been open for discussion? Never ever? Because admins only do what they think is best now? No more input from the community?

blablabla

This system has never been announced officially and clearly so that everyone would have known about this.

blablabla

Look here my friend: http://www.ensl.org/articles/946. Posted 23rd of August on the FRONTPAGE. It had been there until the news for the Newcomer hit, which was at September 14th.

That's solid 3 weeks.

Oh... ok now, this is closer to a ladder format then i guess. Excuse me for everything I've said, didn't know it would work this way. (never read that bit of the post cuz I thought it would be the copy paste on how to sign up for s7)

sryyyyyyyyyyy

Seedings look decent enough to me.

Alpha and Omega 4ever