herakles says

The alien team tries to break a pg in system, 2 fades go in with skulks, skulks get focused, fades still win the fight, at a big cost. Nothing gained. Fades are useless.

If all res is up, this is just a bad play, simple as that. And it should be a bad play.

If all res is down, this is not a problem. They are not recapping, so come back later when you have onos.

If fades do kill all 5, tbh the alien team gains more

Ok so no trolling, Fades should be able to take gates down.
Their pvp role is so weak atm that they should have a reward when they win a hard fight.

I want some more ballsy changes to be tested in a high lvl mix type scrim.
I don't think you can Fadeball anymore, fades are much weaker now than they were when Godar abused the old meta.

You can't fade ball anymore because of low sdmg means you never achieve anything when you frag 5 marines with 5 fades.

Just buff fade HP scaling with biomass to make them stronger and better in PvP.

If you increase sdmg there will be a fade ball...


You can also change eHP of PGs to be no armor and all normal HP. Then fades can solo PGs

Let's try it.
No armor PGs could be good.
Oh and no BM but did you ever play fade last months? OR since the fadeball 2 years ago? Do you know how hard it is for a single fade, even 2 fades to open a lane vs a solo SG?

Don't get me wrong, I think fades are weak. I want them buffed, and I think biomass HP scale is the way to help

herakles says

Let's try it.
No armor PGs could be good.
Oh and no BM but did you ever play fade last months? OR since the fadeball 2 years ago? Do you know how hard it is for a single fade, even 2 fades to open a lane vs a solo SG?

Exhibit A: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RpMSfCn5IzA

No to buffing fade sdamage.

Yes to buffing biomass health on fade.

Willing to explore rebalanced HP/armor on PG's

No to removing damage numbers from bile bomb. It is NOT a free wallhack. Gorges don't just run around the map biling around corners to check for marines first. Almost any time they bile around a corner is because they already know a marine is there (or have aura).

The teammates of the gorge can't see the damage numbers, so it's not like they get to learn the position for "free".

I think it's only fair for the gorge to know how much armor damage he/she is doing to their opponents. Just like a lerk can say "these marines have no armor" after spiking them.

Then damage numbers should disappear as soon as line of sight is broken. Same thing on HYDRAS.
It is a free wallhack.

Do i really need to give you replays of gorges spamming corners to see if a marine is ambushing them?

Edit: :) Lome, yep that's what i meant about a impact SG to Locklear, in all those fight the front sg (Lome) averages a 800 to 900 damage output, amazing dps AND spread on all higher lifeforms.
Team fight is won before it starts. 3rd clip= no kills 900 pdamage, hive down, impact SG player perfect exemple.

who needs wallhacks when you can just hit people through walls & ceilings because they stick through.

Lambo says

who needs wallhacks when you can just hit people through walls & ceilings because they stick through.

http://donthatethegeek.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/wpid-wp-1448029508512.jpg

herakles says

Then damage numbers should disappear as soon as line of sight is broken. Same thing on HYDRAS.
It is a free wallhack.

Do i really need to give you replays of gorges spamming corners to see if a marine is ambushing them?

Edit: :) Lome, yep that's what i meant about a impact SG to Locklear, in all those fight the front sg (Lome) averages a 800 to 900 damage output, amazing dps AND spread on all higher lifeforms.
Team fight is won before it starts. 3rd clip= no kills 900 pdamage, hive down, impact SG player perfect exemple.

Showing a replay would help. I just don't know when a gorge would be lobbing bilebombs around a corner unless he/she already knew a marine was there. Calling it a wallhack is misleading, because it is by no means some passive buff. It requires the gorge actually take action.

Should we also remove ticking damage numbers from the lerk because poison bite gives away location for a little while?

Simba says

Showing a replay would help. I just don't know when a gorge would be lobbing bilebombs around a corner unless he/she already knew a marine was there. Calling it a wallhack is misleading, because it is by no means some passive buff. It requires the gorge actually take action.

Should we also remove ticking damage numbers from the lerk because poison bite gives away location for a little while?

Gorges do bile bomb ahead. Not every corner for sure but if a marine is expected in a position you can easily confirm it without needing los or sound.

Lerk poison while it exhibits the same behaviour doesn't get to do that for free a lerk has to land a bite, where as bile is ranged and aoe much easier to get away with.

Im not sure outright removing damage numbers is the best method to counter it though. I was discussing with turts and golden, maybe if something is out of LOS the damage numbers just get placed on your UI instead of in the world. That way the information is greatly minimized and it wouldn't screw over other DoT abilities/weapons.

Cr4zy says

Simba says

Showing a replay would help. I just don't know when a gorge would be lobbing bilebombs around a corner unless he/she already knew a marine was there. Calling it a wallhack is misleading, because it is by no means some passive buff. It requires the gorge actually take action.

Should we also remove ticking damage numbers from the lerk because poison bite gives away location for a little while?

Gorges do bile bomb ahead. Not every corner for sure but if a marine is expected in a position you can easily confirm it without needing los or sound.

Lerk poison while it exhibits the same behaviour doesn't get to do that for free a lerk has to land a bite, where as bile is ranged and aoe much easier to get away with.

Im not sure outright removing damage numbers is the best method to counter it though. I was discussing with turts and golden, maybe if something is out of LOS the damage numbers just get placed on your UI instead of in the world. That way the information is greatly minimized and it wouldn't screw over other DoT abilities/weapons.

That does not solve the problem. You would still get a confirmation that a marine is camping behind that corner. Also, what about the edge cases? Like if the marine is parasited, or you DO have aura? I would want the damage numbers to be displayed in that case! I want to communicate with my team how much damage I have done.

If you take away bilebomb from doing this, can't I do the same with babblers?

I am not convinced this is game breaking enough to call for a complete removal in the display of damage numbers. I feel that hurts the gorge player from having useful knowledge to wether he/she is hitting structures/players effectively when it's on purpose.

herakles says

Then damage numbers should disappear as soon as line of sight is broken. Same thing on HYDRAS.
It is a free wallhack.

'Free' and 'wallhack' are both overstated. Scouting with bile costs energy, is unreliable due to dropped welders etc., audibly and visually reveals the gorge's position, puts the gorge in weapon cooldown, and most importantly is effective only at a short distance that, especially with the latest speed tweaks, tends to put the gorge at a large exposure risk. Hydra scouting similarly requires the time, pres, energy, and exposure to put them far enough forward in a lane to be useful, and they're easily gimped by one w0 lmg.

The utility of this stuff is already so compromised that introducing some non-uniformity in damage number behavior would be overcorrective.

Any upset concerning free wallhacks could instead be directed at the unintuitive map-reveals caused by touching cysts or power nodes. That's still a thing right?

eddy says

Any upset concerning free wallhacks could instead be directed at the unintuitive map-reveals caused by touching cysts or power nodes. That's still a thing right?

ya nodes are retarded, even grazing power nodes reveals you, i've even seen HERAKLIT make this mistake when ambushing through mezz vent on marines looking @ obs VENT from the mezz staircase.


i dont think cysts do this, what we're seeing is hive sight seeing marines or maybe a drifter. i dont think i've ever caught a marine via cysts, even if they stand right on top of them. but if your really wanna be fancy you can try to BUILD CYSTs where you think MARINES are, and you'll get the message that you Cannont Build On Entity. :}

I think cysts actually do that too. Though there's no way to be sure that's what is causing it. (without testing)

I've seen marines pop up randomly on the map even though they didn't attack anything or have any detection form nearby.

herakles says

Edit: :) Lome, yep that's what i meant about a impact SG to Locklear, in all those fight the front sg (Lome) averages a 800 to 900 damage output, amazing dps AND spread on all higher lifeforms.
Team fight is won before it starts. 3rd clip= no kills 900 pdamage, hive down, impact SG player perfect exemple.

Yeah, it shows what a SG is capable of certainly. He does it from the front however and we didn't collapse and sync our attacks on him as aliens as well as we should have been able to. A2 + meds makes it difficult but the fact that he lived that long was our mistake.

A good HMG is capable of this as well but without having to expose yourself as much in CQC. It's just a different style of play.

Locklear says

I think cysts actually do that too. Though there's no way to be sure that's what is causing it. (without testing)

I've seen marines pop up randomly on the map even though they didn't attack anything or have any detection form nearby.

U SEE THIS GOLDEN???????

phonee says

eddy says

Any upset concerning free wallhacks could instead be directed at the unintuitive map-reveals caused by touching cysts or power nodes. That's still a thing right?

ya nodes are retarded, even grazing power nodes reveals you, i've even seen HERAKLIT make this mistake when ambushing through mezz vent on marines looking @ obs VENT from the mezz staircase.


i dont think cysts do this, what we're seeing is hive sight seeing marines or maybe a drifter. i dont think i've ever caught a marine via cysts, even if they stand right on top of them. but if your really wanna be fancy you can try to BUILD CYSTs where you think MARINES are, and you'll get the message that you Cannont Build On Entity. :}

Power nodes give LOS within a small radius, because they are technically a marine building. I seem to recall disabling the LOS from blueprint power nodes when reworking how they showed up in the minimap (the unsocketed/blueprint/built/destroyed thing) because it was a bit absurd. Although I don't remember if I actually made the change or not, it's been a while, plus they changed how LOS works in the last few patches.

Cysts don't give LOS, but other alien structures could behave the same as the power node in theory, and then there's the fun bug where sometimes there's stuff that won't go away from the minimap with nothing around them providing LOS.

Mendasp says

and then there's the fun bug where sometimes there's stuff that won't go away from the minimap with nothing around them providing LOS.

I wonder if some of the weird Alien LOS stuff could be fixed with reloading the map after one round ends. Similarly how if you armory block Oxy on Jambi you'll get the cyst bug the following round if the Armory was not destroyed/recycled.