Can Lucky Chams stop making my points before I make them? kthx

Hobbeson says

Either Hera is or is not of equivalent or lower skill than the rest of the team. If he's not, then the ref shouldn't have allowed it. People think he wasn't, and so they are angry with the ref. You seem to think that even raising this issue is silly. It's almost as if you think it's impossible for there to be someone of greater skill than the members of the teams participating in the FINAL of the HIGHEST division. But obviously that is a possibility, so your point isn't very good.

Of course, this all comes down to a debate about Hera's relative skill, and I doubt we can settle that here. Instead we should just all agree to ban mercs in future grand finals (and maybe make those other changes Pikum suggested).

Of course people can disagree with a referees decision... I would never say otherwise... but that should be dealt with at the time of the match, preferably before it starts... not days afterwards on the forums.

And as I said above, I agree, I think a rule to prevent this in future should be added... but a change to the match that has already been played shouldn't be made.

ok guys u love stats??

hera was: second to last on the scoreboard on jambi aliens, topped jambi marines narrowly(less pdmg and worse k/d than me), 7k 31a 3d on d2 aliens and ok admittedly did carry a bit on d2 marines

i called on jambi mostly and i told hera to call on d2 which admittedly wasn't much cuz fights were either stomps(last round) or happened in gen(3rd round)

also star lmao ever since i joined i've been the caller, our issue was ppl not listening to me

isn't going 7 kills, 31 assists and 3 deaths pretty good for a lerk? that means he didn't die.

I agree, Kash, that they probably shouldn't change the results. All I'm saying is that (i) it's reasonable for S&D to be pissed, and for them to complain about the ref's call, (ii) that Placeholder was unsportsmanlike for insisting on the merc, and (iii) that we should all agree to change the rules in the future.

he only spiked if u watch the vod and assists can be deceiving in this game

still, my point is that he didn't carry

Zafod says

yes but my point is that he didn't carry - he only spiked if u watch the vod and assists can be deceiving in this game

...except for that one round or two.

ye if u change the definition of carry then 2

turtsmcgurts says

isn't going 7 kills, 31 assists and 3 deaths pretty good for a lerk? that means he didn't die.

ROFL

so now we're discusssing hera's impact on the games? how is that relevant to breaking the rules on substitutions?

let's get back on topic zafraud, you hoaxed me by bending the rules saying you couldnt find Any other MERC and that you wouldnt play Any OTHER TIME implying i would forfeit the match

no
i aint talkin to u bitch

"hera was too strong" "hera carried"

Zafod says

no
i aint talkin to u bitch

"hera was too strong" "hera carried"

Zafod I think you're missing the point. The issue is whether Hera is better than your team, and most of us think that he is. The fact that he didn't carry *every* round doesn't mean that he's not.

na man p sure im better than him now even bubba knows he better

phonee says

so now we're discusssing hera's impact on the games? how is that relevant to breaking the rules on substitutions?

let's get back on topic zafraud, you hoaxed me by bending the rules saying you couldnt find Any other MERC and that you wouldnt play Any OTHER TIME implying i would forfeit the match

Other opinions don't matter... if the ref said its okay, then its okay. "the referees decision is final"

Can rules be made to prevent this happening again in the future? yes.

Should that change the outcome of the match that has already happened? no.

All rules should be read and agreed upon before the match starts.

6. Substitutions
The intention of substitute players is to allow teams, that cannot field 6 players, the ability to play their matches. It is NOT to be used to bolster the skill of a team’s roster.6. Substitutions
The intention of substitute players is to allow teams, that cannot field 6 players, the ability to play their matches. It is NOT to be used to bolster the skill of a team’s roster.6. Substitutions
The intention of substitute players is to allow teams, that cannot field 6 players, the ability to play their matches. It is NOT to be used to bolster the skill of a team’s roster.6. Substitutions
The intention of substitute players is to allow teams, that cannot field 6 players, the ability to play their matches. It is NOT to be used to bolster the skill of a team’s roster.6. Substitutions
The intention of substitute players is to allow teams, that cannot field 6 players, the ability to play their matches. It is NOT to be used to bolster the skill of a team’s roster.6. Substitutions
The intention of substitute players is to allow teams, that cannot field 6 players, the ability to play their matches. It is NOT to be used to bolster the skill of a team’s roster.6. Substitutions
The intention of substitute players is to allow teams, that cannot field 6 players, the ability to play their matches. It is NOT to be used to bolster the skill of a team’s roster.6. Substitutions
The intention of substitute players is to allow teams, that cannot field 6 players, the ability to play their matches. It is NOT to be used to bolster the skill of a team’s roster.6. Substitutions
The intention of substitute players is to allow teams, that cannot field 6 players, the ability to play their matches. It is NOT to be used to bolster the skill of a team’s roster.6. Substitutions
The intention of substitute players is to allow teams, that cannot field 6 players, the ability to play their matches. It is NOT to be used to bolster the skill of a team’s roster.



the fact that they said to me (when i DENIED THEIR MERC) they couldnt find another "high division lerk player" and that "other players don't know their strats" means they werent substituting their players to "Allow the team, that cannot field 6 players, the ability to play their match"

i dont know why youre saying there isn't a rule ALREADY in place to prevent this

phonee says

crying

It is down to the referee to decide based solely off of the rules, whether a merc is stronger than the team... the ref decided that he wasn't.

YOU cannot deny a merc... you can REQUEST a denial of a merc.

The situation how it actually is -

1. They needed a merc
2. They got a merc
3. You tried to deny the merc.
4. The ref said the merc was fine.
5. The match went ahead with the rules being followed.
6. You lost.
7. You cried.

There is nothing more to the situation, no rule was broken.

So, how to fix this situation? add the rule that people cannot have mercs for the final match... play with your team, or forfeit... no mercs allowed.

But even if this rule were to be added, it should not effect the matches that have already taken place. no rules were broken at the time of play.

In summary -

You lost, get over it.

In my heart, the bees will always be season 10 champs.

buzz buzz sweet prince.

Some points:

1) There was never a clear request before the match to deny Herakles.

2) Docking_2 is in the map selection as posted and still visible under contest rules.
a. Ixian confirmed the map pool prior to beginning the playoff and asked s&d to confirm.
i. http://imgur.com/a/60uAc
ii. Docking 2 is listed
iii. No objections from s&d.
b. S&D is the team that selected Docking 2 for play.

3) I joined the s&d Teamspeak channel multiple times before the playoffs started to check on things. IE sorting out map rotations and the ability for teams to field 6 players (with 1 merc each).
a. I was asked to leave s&d channel. Ixian was handling the referee work.
b. Ixian is an official referee.
c. I received no complaints about the way Ixian was handling any of it.

4) All of the listed complaints were expressed after the match results.
a. The match results will stand.

The league rules may be updated to clarify some points and prevent confusion in the future.

Suggestion regarding mercs and merc approval:
Mercs may only be approved on a match page and all three parties must be involved.

Example:

On a match page,
Team A must make a post to request merc (link to ENSL profile)
Team B must make a post to approve/deny
Ref/Admin must make a post to confirm

Obviously depending on how you look at the rules, the ref/admin can override Team B's approval/denial of merc, but then we'd have it in writing. None of this, he-said/she-said about which mercs were approved and which weren't.

Website suggestion: Make a GUI for this instead of using comments on the match page

Pikum says

Suggestion regarding mercs and merc approval:
Mercs may only be approved on a match page and all three parties must be involved.

Example:

On a match page,
Team A must make a post to request merc (link to ENSL profile)
Team B must make a post to approve/deny
Ref/Admin must make a post to confirm

Obviously depending on how you look at the rules, the ref/admin can override Team B's approval/denial of merc, but then we'd have it in writing. None of this, he-said/she-said about which mercs were approved and which weren't.

Website suggestion: Make a GUI for this instead of using comments on the match page

That would take a VERY long time for people to just get a merc... its a very long winded version that is almost exactly what we currently have... I don't see the point in making those changes tbh.

Kash says

That would take a VERY long time for people to just get a merc... its a very long winded version that is almost exactly what we currently have... I don't see the point in making those changes tbh.

I'm trying to figure out if you're here to be helpful or if you're just here to complain.

---

What happened to the approvemerc command, didn't old comp mod have that?

Pikum says

I'm trying to figure out if you're here to be helpful or if you're just here to complain.

Well, when you consider that my suggestion was to implement new rules that would prevent this issue arising again in the future and then compare it to your idea, which is to make the current rules longer and more difficult to do on short notice... i'm sure you'd be able to figure out if i'm here to help or not.

Pikum says

What happened to the approvemerc command, didn't old comp mod have that?

That was never in the comp mod, it was and still is in the NSL mod, and it still works as intended.

Kash says

Well, when you consider that my suggestion was to implement new rules that would prevent this issue arising again in the future and then compare it to your idea, which is to make the current rules longer and more difficult to do on short notice... i'm sure you'd be able to figure out if i'm here to help or not.

Kash says

which is to make the current rules longer and more difficult.

Kash says

more difficult.

holy shit, it's retarded

oh yeah i never typed mercsokay in game
so i dotn know how HERA played on their team, they must have CIRCUMVENTED the plugin, which seems like an EXPLOIT which seems Banable

I never Approved Anything

Knox says

Some points:

1) There was never a clear request before the match to deny Herakles.

2) Docking_2 is in the map selection as posted and still visible under contest rules.
a. Ixian confirmed the map pool prior to beginning the playoff and asked s&d to confirm.
i. http://imgur.com/a/60uAc
ii. Docking 2 is listed
iii. No objections from s&d.
b. S&D is the team that selected Docking 2 for play.

3) I joined the s&d Teamspeak channel multiple times before the playoffs started to check on things. IE sorting out map rotations and the ability for teams to field 6 players (with 1 merc each).
a. I was asked to leave s&d channel. Ixian was handling the referee work.
b. Ixian is an official referee.
c. I received no complaints about the way Ixian was handling any of it.

4) All of the listed complaints were expressed after the match results.
a. The match results will stand.

The league rules may be updated to clarify some points and prevent confusion in the future.

1) Yes there was.
2) cant argue with this
3) Ixian mutes chat and offers no communication channel, but is official ref #badmins

I'm so shocked that euros bullied to get their way in another finals. I was told we dropped the E to make it the NSL years ago, evidence thus far has been to the contrary.

#eurobias

Guys, you've totally ruined the whole christmas feeling for me with this drama.. Cant y'all just grab each other by the hands and sing a christmas carol and get along?

Guys my lifeform killing stats are still at the top: 8 higher lifeforms killed, 5 of wich solo.

herakles says

Guys my lifeform killing stats are still at the top: 8 higher lifeforms killed, 5 of wich solo.

But you didn't carry

Golden says

I'm so shocked that euros bullied to get their way in another finals. I was told we dropped the E to make it the NSL years ago, evidence thus far has been to the contrary.

#eurobias

Its bullshit comments like this that make me want to argue to see you guys get beaten again. The last thing I wanted to see was Bubba get a fucking badge, but shit happens, they played better and broke no rules, cry somewhere else.

Pikum says

Kash says

Well, when you consider that my suggestion was to implement new rules that would prevent this issue arising again in the future and then compare it to your idea, which is to make the current rules longer and more difficult to do on short notice... i'm sure you'd be able to figure out if i'm here to help or not.

Kash says

which is to make the current rules longer and more difficult.

Kash says

more difficult.

holy shit, it's retarded

I never said that the act of typing on a match page was difficult, but in comparison to just saying "can we merc X" in game, dealing with each other in real time and then playing, it is substantially more work for exactly the same rule... jesus, with your "new rule" it would require typing on the match page, if the merc is denied typing again... and again, going back and forth etc, whilst also co-ordinating people outside of the game to actually comment... something that should take seconds would instead hold up a game for much longer.

Its not rocket science, you offered nothing more than to make a current rule, more complex, for no gain.

also,

Difficult meaning - harder to deal with, or "creating unnecessary obstacles"

not

Difficult meaning - not easily or readily done.

Sorry that you misunderstood that the word "Difficult" has more than one meaning, I'll be sure to make myself clearer in future.