Replay Commentary of good players

Kelmops_noBM
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4 March 2017 - 21:27 EST
#1
I´ve recorded some gameplay from gathers lately. I thought maybe we could have high skill players do something like rewatching their gameplay and commentate their decisionmaking over it.

I´ve made one so you can see what I mean of a horrible marine gather:
https://youtu.be/x2a9NE7Tl9A

What do you think?
We have a lot of good shots in mid-tier-players but we all know the decision making and positioning makes a good player.
We could do a couple for the tutorial-section of ensl.org.
Mega
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4 March 2017 - 21:42 EST
#2
good job for the most part

do you want to have it moved to the tutorial section or the Videos and replays section ? ^^
Nightsy
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5 March 2017 - 08:49 EST
#3
Useless to do an analysis of gathers, if you wanna do that do it with PCWs.
Get a team of 5 more players you can trust.

Reasons:
Communication in gather is lacking often, so enemy position arent necessarily transfered to the whole team. (cant do optimal plays)
People are often just fucking around, getting drunk or having fun.
Some gather participants dont know the basics of the game and dont have the required aim to analyse any "mistakes"
There are no fixes roles in gathers like shout caller, a common makro plan (goal) for how the game is supposed to evolve..

Most players see gathers as a way to train their aim, not necessarily their communication skills or their brain skills (like when to trap, when and who pushes what at which times, when to rotate to fights ect.)



Knox
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5 March 2017 - 09:27 EST
#4
Nightsy says
Useless to do an analysis of gathers, if you wanna do that do it with PCWs.
Get a team of 5 more players you can trust.

Reasons:
Communication in gather is lacking often, so enemy position arent necessarily transfered to the whole team. (cant do optimal plays)
People are often just fucking around, getting drunk or having fun.
Some gather participants dont know the basics of the game and dont have the required aim to analyse any "mistakes"
There are no fixes roles in gathers like shout caller, a common makro plan (goal) for how the game is supposed to evolve..

Most players see gathers as a way to train their aim, not necessarily their communication skills or their brain skills (like when to trap, when and who pushes what at which times, when to rotate to fights ect.)





Agreed for the communication/team part. But it still has merit for individual skill to show position choices and other tactical decision making. So I wouldn't define it as useless.
BauerJankins
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5 March 2017 - 09:44 EST
#5
i disagree with nights fam, you can still explain your decision making (since there are no scrims this is all we got) in a gather. a higher skilled player will always have more map awareness than others, so he can make decisions based on that, you don't need your teammates to tell you they got crushed by 5 skulks cuz you're gonna see it yourself on the map.
who cares if there are people in the game who are just fucking around/drunk/new, if YOU want to win YOU can still do your best to win the game, and good decision making is even more important for that to happen...
and lul we never had a set shotcaller/general plan except maybe what to tech NIGHTSY
http://i.imgur.com/hr1ud2u.png
Nightsy
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5 March 2017 - 09:46 EST
#6
Knox says
Nightsy says
Useless to do an analysis of gathers, if you wanna do that do it with PCWs.
Get a team of 5 more players you can trust.

Reasons:
Communication in gather is lacking often, so enemy position arent necessarily transfered to the whole team. (cant do optimal plays)
People are often just fucking around, getting drunk or having fun.
Some gather participants dont know the basics of the game and dont have the required aim to analyse any "mistakes"
There are no fixes roles in gathers like shout caller, a common makro plan (goal) for how the game is supposed to evolve..

Most players see gathers as a way to train their aim, not necessarily their communication skills or their brain skills (like when to trap, when and who pushes what at which times, when to rotate to fights ect.)





Agreed for the communication/team part. But it still has merit for individual skill to show position choices and other tactical decision making. So I wouldn't define it as useless.


Right. But why choose a suboptimal setting (gather, pub) when you can easily choose to do the same with an advanced setting (PCW, official)? That is just resources (time, energy on analysing) not well spent.
you could say..

ITS BAD DECISION MAKING

Kelmops_noBM
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5 March 2017 - 10:00 EST
#7
It´s true that gathers are really different from actual scrimms but they are a place which forces people to play off random other people. Gathers sometimes force you into a position you are not used to. For example as a captain u will most likely have to be the shotcaller.
I think it makes you a all around better player when you have to take different roles.

I believe you have to be able to call and gathers are a nice place to practice and get the confidence to actually make important decisions. Even if you won´t be the shotcaller on a team it certainly helps to have the awareness on every player to be able to call.

In the end it´s every players own responsibility to improve, nobody can do it for you ... if you want to fuck around in gathers fine but I´m trying to get the many mid-tier players we have to the high level so we can have some nice games :)
lebra
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5 March 2017 - 11:26 EST
#8
what if we win every game without saying a single word?
Kelmops_noBM
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6 March 2017 - 13:03 EST
#9
I know a lot of players actually enjoy playing without having to call anything but most of the time you dont have the luxury of having proper teammates to do so :D
Ixian
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6 March 2017 - 16:22 EST
#10
What about reversing it? Instead of good players comment on their own gameplay, give them a video of someone else playing, and then they analyse it.

Its easier to do - the recording process is already done. And it is alot more relevant, as it is someone making the mistakes, rather than someone talking about why something is good. TheWarOwl, a CSGO channel, is at times reviewer subscriber games, and talk about them. His format for this seems really good. Wob's format for analysing games, is similar, and while long, they make points worth while listning to and understanding.

Down side is that it can be alot harsher.

Whether it is a scrim, gather, or an official is besides the point. A mistake is a mistake - only difference is that it may or may not be punished, depending on your opponent.
"It is wisdom to recognize necessity, when all other courses have been weighed, despite as folly it may appear to those who cling to false hope" - J.R.R. Tolkien
Mega
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7 March 2017 - 08:49 EST
#11
Mega_noComm says
good job for the most part

do you want to have it moved to the tutorial section or the Videos and replays section ? ^^


since you didn't chose Videos and replays section lets go.
BauerJankins
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7 March 2017 - 17:51 EST
#12
Ixian says
What about reversing it? Instead of good players comment on their own gameplay, give them a video of someone else playing, and then they analyse it.

this is actually what i thought this would be before i watched the vid
i guess both ways to do it are fine tho
http://i.imgur.com/hr1ud2u.png
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