Greetings Friends

NotDragon
Noavatar
Extra-Staff
NSL Mod (Creator) Coder
Posts
64
Location
United States of America
Joined
11 April 2012
5 March 2016 - 06:23 CET
#1
So, given UWE's recent decisions to completely fuck over any mods, I will be removing mine from steam workshop. Since I cannot even get a reasonable answer on any questions asked of them multiple times on discord, and will not tolerate being scammed by them again. There is little chance of recourse on this at this point, I will not be doing anything related to NS2 unless there is a serious change of heart.

You are more then welcome to attempt to get answers for them on questions that have been asked, but I seriously doubt that will happen.

Top Questions:
Will there be a way to disable forced extensions if they are no longer relevant.
Why are countless bug fixes being completely ignored and gamebreaking bugs being left untouched (Relevancy changes).
The ridiculous expectation that mods will fix anything that players don't like (lighting changes, powernode priming).
migalski
6332
S11 Forfeit Champs
Posts
31
Location
United States of America
Joined
27 June 2014
5 March 2016 - 06:41 CET
#2
rip ns2 comp
Locklear
2866
one brit too many
Posts
111
Location
United States of America
Joined
24 July 2012
5 March 2016 - 06:46 CET
#3
Who likes Vanilla Ice Cream?
Pickle
Noavatar
Posts
1
Location
Chicago, United States of America
Joined
15 December 2015
5 March 2016 - 06:58 CET
#4
So who's moving to OW xD?
tap
Noavatar
Neonblu Gaming
Posts
14
Location
United States of America
Joined
6 October 2013
5 March 2016 - 07:39 CET
#5
Rip compmod, hello actually getting back to regular life of working.
phone
2104
Snoofed
Posts
227
Location
Zimbabwe
Joined
29 March 2010
5 March 2016 - 07:52 CET
#6
dragon i still aprpprecaite you
phone
2104
Snoofed
Posts
227
Location
Zimbabwe
Joined
29 March 2010
5 March 2016 - 08:11 CET
#7
delay s9 please
Kash
5445
For The Lolz
Posts
314
Location
United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland
Joined
5 May 2013
5 March 2016 - 08:24 CET
#8
I understand that you have your reasons, and I fully respect your decision... but I cannot help feel like we (the competitive community) are being punished for the actions of UWE.

Don't get me wrong here, its your mod and you are free to do with it whatever you want, but from what I could tell it was intended to make the game more fun and more balanced for a niche community inside a niche game. A side of the game UWE has never truly intended to cater to. Your work was largely appreciated (with the exception of a select few people maybe) and without it this side of the game would likely be long dead.

To me it feels like you're condemning the competitive scene to death because UWE are being dicks. I hope this isn't the case and I hope that you released compmod again at some point in the future... but without it, I don't see comp being played much longer.

Regardless, I want to thank you for the time and effort you put in and apologize for the shit you had to put up with from the vocal minority that didn't appreciate your work.
"Out with the gorge, into the ready room" F4 - iSay
rantology
2659
The Boys
Contributors
Balance-Team
Posts
124
Location
United States of America
Joined
28 March 2012
5 March 2016 - 08:45 CET
#9
This is a truly sad day.... Thank you for everything you've given this community over the years dragon, I'm sorry it came to this. Without your mods competitive NS2 (and vanilla!) would have gone down a very different path.

(I do not know the full details of the situation- I am not involved with the programming aspect of development, I just wanted to say thanks)
Vindaloo
4231
Posts
204
Location
Czechia
Joined
10 December 2012
5 March 2016 - 10:26 CET
#10
We will have to postpone S9 and see what we can do. Talk to the parties involved, etc... We need to ensure the season is played in stable environment and not having it changed from week to week.
Sardine
5431
California Burrito
Posts
68
Location
British Indian Ocean Territory
Joined
1 May 2013
5 March 2016 - 10:41 CET
#11
With no comp mod and no NSL mod there is no point in playing the game at all, cya later.

Thanks for all your hours spent coding.
Obraxis
Noavatar
Posts
14
Location
United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland
Joined
1 April 2007
5 March 2016 - 11:01 CET
#12
NotDragon says
So, given UWE's recent decisions to completely fuck over any mods, I will be removing mine from steam workshop. Since I cannot even get a reasonable answer on any questions asked of them multiple times on discord, and will not tolerate being scammed by them again. There is little chance of recourse on this at this point, I will not be doing anything related to NS2 unless there is a serious change of heart.

You are more then welcome to attempt to get answers for them on questions that have been asked, but I seriously doubt that will happen.


Just for sake of clarity, you didn't contact any of the NS2 programming team directly, nor the person who actually wrote the extensions systems; McGlaspie. Despite his great abilities, he isn't psychic and cant read every line of text in every Discord channel. Only Mendasp contacted him about some things. We only found some text of yours in the Server OPS channel, not the modding-ns2 Discord channel. (Things that are server related will drown out modding questions). I'm pretty sure all of this could have been avoided with a single PM to him, as he responds to all Discord PMs.

Let's have clear communication. The questions you've asked deserve answers and although I'm not a programmer, you can either PM any of us on Discord or if you'd like, email me at scott[at]naturalselection2.com and I'll start a discussion with the programmers.

I will however, attempt to answer your questions based on my current knowledge with a lack of programming ability thrown in.

NotDragon says

Will there be a way to disable forced extensions if they are no longer relevant.


For our extensions system to work, it needs to be on all NS2 servers. It's so we can iterate faster and fix things faster without having to push out Steam patches. I've talked with McGlaspie and we're probably going to do some code changes to help the situation next week. You should PM Ghoul to discuss it further. But from my understanding, it's possible to get around the issue already with just a small amount of work from yourself. (Not a programmer, but others have said this in passing).

NotDragon says
Why are countless bug fixes being completely ignored and gamebreaking bugs being left untouched (Relevancy changes).


Part of the mandate on the NS2 team was to figure out ways of increasing player numbers, as we all know, this time last year NS2 was close to death. Bug fixing is on low priority, as only 1 member of the team is full-time.

Bug fixing will still be done, but it's on the back burner. We don't have the manpower to fix too many bugs and do what we need to do to improve player retention. This is why we're still open to contributions from the outside which can be merged in.

NotDragon says
The ridiculous expectation that mods will fix anything that players don't like (lighting changes, powernode priming).


We don't expect that at all. Not sure where you got that. But we do need you to talk to us directly, especially the programmers McGlaspie and Ghoul. It's totally possible for us to help with this situation.
Archie
Noavatar
Posts
1
Location
Earth
Joined
13 August 2011
5 March 2016 - 12:11 CET
#13
Don't want you to leave but if you have to, so be it, competitive Australia will go with ENSL and alot of great players will eventually stop playing to, there's so much crap going on in relation to communication issues and whom is doing the communication, NS2 is fucked at this rate and it's spearheaded by a bunch of degenerates whom don't understand the fashion of the playerbase, there's so much disdain from preexisting hierarchical structures that came over from NS and NS2 itself, there's a disconnect between competitive scene(including modders, whom also have servers running for the majority of the communty) and then on the flipside you have people like Hugh and a bunch of people around him trying to make everything alright in all the wrong ways because they're trying to make it seem like they're doing something for the good of us all.

*WARNING NOT DIRECTLY RELATED TO DRAGON BUT SOMEWHAT RELATED*
Obraxis, i don't think many servers populated by community hosted servers even want some features that might be released or already are released, our Australian servers want it removed, chinese servers want it removed, Japanese servers want it removed, i am sure some other people want it removed.

Why don't you just let it be set up in the config and servers that want it can have it? it's an annoying feature "atmospheric lighting" most servers people play with ns2+ or compmod for a reason with lowlights and or they don't want the cluttered brightness of individual objects radiating and distracting.

Max's implementation and lighting is actually pretty specific and advanced, his brother and him aren't idiots and all that this lighting mod has done has given people to complain more on community servers about UWE, i don't think i've heard one thing positive said about it on the servers, or any server that that.


It's a forced feature, as such by default it should be disabled.

**** Hugh
Tyr
6015
BEAST INFECTION
Posts
76
Location
Sweden
Joined
8 January 2014
5 March 2016 - 12:14 CET
#14
+1 on Kash.
Wob
Noavatar
B L I N K
Posts
296
Location
United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland
Joined
18 January 2013
5 March 2016 - 12:22 CET
#15
UWE stepping in only when things are in crisis mode. I kind of want dragon not to come back just to spite UWE now and their shit attitude in order to fuck ns2; it seems they only learn their lessons once the damage is irreparable.

Seems bizarre to me that despite all the concerns from modders when Hugh suggested the rapid iteration scheme, that you expect modders to raise the same concerns again in the future (with the expectation of being ignored). The fact that dragon has to use a nuclear option in order to get your attention is pathetic; feels like you want a competitive scene (loyal players) without treating them well.

Thank you dragon for compmod, your time, and patience. While I don't want to see compmod gone, I fully support your decision!
Obraxis
Noavatar
Posts
14
Location
United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland
Joined
1 April 2007
5 March 2016 - 12:26 CET
#16
Wob says
UWE stepping in only when things are in crisis mode.


Did you even read what I said?

We're on Discord every day, easy to PM and talk to us. Dragon didn't do that. We're not psychic.
lebra
4566
REFORMED
Posts
141
Location
no., Iceland
Joined
17 January 2013
5 March 2016 - 12:28 CET
#17
We can never express how thankful we are for all you've done for the competitive scene Dragon, it definitely wouldn't have played out this smooth & enjoyable without your efforts. It's sad what things have come to regarding UWE's decision, even more sad that most people aren't even surprised by how they dealt with it.

We'll discuss the upcoming season among the staff given the situation along with trying to contact UWE whether they have any intentions of reverting/fixing their changes.
Wob
Noavatar
B L I N K
Posts
296
Location
United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland
Joined
18 January 2013
5 March 2016 - 12:52 CET
#18
Obraxis says
Wob says
UWE stepping in only when things are in crisis mode.


Did you even read what I said?


Did you not read what I said?
http://forums.unknownworlds.com/discussion/comment/2261350/#Comment_2261350

You only ever step in when it's too late. When you've ignored concerns and made the bad decisions. You have this "My door is open" policy but still ignore it. You can't just move the goal posts and say "Oh but UWE forums isn't discord" or "Oh I can't expect to catch everything" etc etc PARTICULARLY WHEN YOU CAUGHT THIS THREAD ON NSL FORUMS, A MORE OBSCURE SOURCE!
Obraxis
Noavatar
Posts
14
Location
United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland
Joined
1 April 2007
5 March 2016 - 13:03 CET
#19
Wob says
Obraxis says
Wob says
UWE stepping in only when things are in crisis mode.


Did you even read what I said?


Did you not read what I said?
http://forums.unknownworlds.com/discussion/comment/2261350/#Comment_2261350

You only ever step in when it's too late. When you've ignored concerns and made the bad decisions. You have this "My door is open" policy but still ignore it. You can't just move the goal posts and say "Oh but UWE forums isn't discord" or "Oh I can't expect to catch everything" etc etc PARTICULARLY WHEN YOU CAUGHT THIS THREAD ON NSL FORUMS, A MORE OBSCURE SOURCE!


I got sent the link by Rant. I don't monitor forums as much as the real-time Discord, as you can get direct, instant interaction there. As in, an open door. Just because we dont post a reply on some forum (even our own), doesn't mean we have not read & discussed a post and it's contents.

And yes, I've personally talked to Mendasp and others at length about things, decisions, and efforts. We're going to do things people don't like, and we're going to do things people do like. We'll adjust based on that feedback. The lighting change has only been on for a week now, and based on the feedback we get is how we will know it will say or not. We're also going to work on an in-game feedback system so we get actual feedback from players playing, and not just any subset. Hopefully this will be of benefit for all.
Wob
Noavatar
B L I N K
Posts
296
Location
United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland
Joined
18 January 2013
5 March 2016 - 13:10 CET
#20
A true politician's reply with no substance with regards to the immediate and current issues.

Do you support Mendasp?

Do you support Dragon?

Do you support comp mod?

Do you support NSL and the competitive community?

Stop talking about mechanisms of feedback and fucking listen to the fact that DRAGON IS GOING TO QUIT. How are you going to resolve this.
Cr4zy
6082
SpookerZ
Posts
195
Location
United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland
Joined
29 January 2014
5 March 2016 - 13:17 CET
#21
Obraxis says
Wob says
UWE stepping in only when things are in crisis mode.


Did you even read what I said?

We're on Discord every day, easy to PM and talk to us. Dragon didn't do that. We're not psychic.


This was discussed before when I wrote a nice thread called 'Dear UWE, what are you doing'. All of a sudden open development, transparency and the forums came alive with developers saying everything is fine. Except when discord was discussed I came along and asked the questions about why important stuff was being ignored and you yourself ignored it as me trolling. I wasn't trolling they were legitimate concerns which you clearly failed to address and ignoring yet more questions.

It's outrageous of your team to claim discord is there for these issues and every time somene says it doesn't work you turn the blame back on them for not specifically highlighting people. Fun fact I've seen Dragon replying to devs in modding chat just for them to stop replying or give retarded answers that wouldn't help the smartest man on earth.
Stop throwing the blame on the people who are coming to your discord for help and being ignored it takes seconds to skim through and if you or the rest of the PDT can not afford that you have no right to tell people they did it incorrectly.

It's a shitty cop out and you look like an arsehole for pretending that's the reason why.

But I'm probably gonna be brushed off as a troll again.
DCDarkling
5487
Referees
Admin
Posts
89
Location
Netherlands
Joined
18 May 2013
5 March 2016 - 13:27 CET
#22
Purely speaking on discord, as im to uninformed about that beehive you are all talking about...
Some days you poke a dev in discord and get oceans on answerers.
Other says they are silent.
They can go silent after oceans of answers. Asking later just pointed to them being busy.

Ive had question go unanswered, and I have had some answered in detail. I also has the short near useless answers.
Just keep poking at a later time. They are all people, and not in there nonstop.



As for dragon, I do hope the fellow comes back. We have our disagreances on many a thing but in the end he makes mods the comp scene needs. (as clearly most of the scene says so)
Obraxis
Noavatar
Posts
14
Location
United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland
Joined
1 April 2007
5 March 2016 - 13:29 CET
#23
Wob says
A true politician's reply with no substance with regards to the immediate and current issues.


Thanks for your critique.

Wob says
Do you support Mendasp?


Yes. I love the Spaniard.

Wob says
Do you support Dragon?


Yes, but saying he contacted us when he didnt doesnt help the situation.

Wob says
Do you support comp mod?


While I dont play it personally, I've never wanted to stop comp mod.

Wob says
Do you support NSL and the competitive community?


Of course, I'd rather work together and have good communication rather than insults flying though. If that means we make an ENSL Discord room or whatever, so be it.

Wob says
How are you going to resolve this.


Dragon actually PMing McGlaspie so they can work out whatever issues he's having on a coding level would be a start . From what I know, Ghoul will be making changes next week to help resolve some of the issues.

Cr4zy says
Stuff


Thanks, I try my best.
Cr4zy
6082
SpookerZ
Posts
195
Location
United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland
Joined
29 January 2014
5 March 2016 - 13:43 CET
#24
Obraxis says



Cr4zy says
Stuff


Thanks, I try my best.


Nice troll.
Wob
Noavatar
B L I N K
Posts
296
Location
United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland
Joined
18 January 2013
5 March 2016 - 13:56 CET
#25
So you're not? You want dragon to resolve it?
Obraxis
Noavatar
Posts
14
Location
United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland
Joined
1 April 2007
5 March 2016 - 14:08 CET
#26
Wob says
So you're not? You want dragon to resolve it?


Yes I want to resolve it, but he is the one with the mods. He needs to WANT to resolve it.
Wob
Noavatar
B L I N K
Posts
296
Location
United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland
Joined
18 January 2013
5 March 2016 - 14:21 CET
#27
Resolve an issue UWE created? You want HIM to jump through YOUR hoops?

Do you actually care?
Gooch
6857
Small a & Sons
Posts
9
Location
United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland
Joined
3 November 2015
5 March 2016 - 14:48 CET
#28
Could you guys stop flaming poor ol' obby
Decoy
Noavatar
Posts
73
Location
United States of America
Joined
6 October 2012
5 March 2016 - 15:01 CET
#29
Flaming PDT isn't going to help the situation at this point. I'm not going to get involved or take sides, but if you want answers you're gonna have to give them a few days to talk it over and figure out what they're going to do.

Dragon you've done a stupid crazy amount of work and had a huge impact. Gotta do what's best for you though
Wob
Noavatar
B L I N K
Posts
296
Location
United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland
Joined
18 January 2013
5 March 2016 - 15:15 CET
#30
TIL criticism = flame
New Reply