DIVISION 2

Kash
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3 November 2016 - 14:03 EDT
#31
I'm happy to drop the additional matches and have 4 matches then go into the semi-final thing that you had laid out before... which was the original play with the boycotts.

but if other people see merit in having ways to prove improvement then the solution I offered I think would be the best way to do that. I am open to being wrong on the matter though.
"Out with the gorge, into the ready room" F4 - iSay
Tico
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3 November 2016 - 14:05 EDT
#32
Kash says
Tico says
I could add just the average points earned from the games that teams played ATV twice. And then just add it to the teams that didnt. So lets iSay earned 4 points in the second game and if they are the only team to play ATV twice. I can just add 4 points to HBZ LAG and Horror Show. And that would even everything out.


Then what would be the point in playing the match in the first place? why not just throw points at everyone because "lol".

Seriously, if this is the kind of logic you are going to put into any discussion about making a fair competitive season... i'm out, if I facepalmed harder my hand would be coming out of the back of my head.


I dont understand how this doesnt make sense, if your team was the lowest seeded team in the bracket. And your team was the ONLY team to play ATV a 2nd time and you got a 4-0 win against them being the team thats seeded 1 above them. Why wouldnt the other teams that are better then the one that played ATV not get a 4-0.

If you guys got a 2-2 against them then the other teams would just get 2 points.
Tico
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3 November 2016 - 14:12 EDT
#33
Kash says
I'm happy to drop the additional matches and have 4 matches then go into the semi-final thing that you had laid out before... which was the original play with the boycotts.


Ok then you still have to wait for Div 2b to finish their matches which doesnt happen for another month or so. If all the teams in Div 2A want to wait for that to happen then alright.
Kash
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3 November 2016 - 14:13 EDT
#34
Tico says
Kash says
Tico says
I could add just the average points earned from the games that teams played ATV twice. And then just add it to the teams that didnt. So lets iSay earned 4 points in the second game and if they are the only team to play ATV twice. I can just add 4 points to HBZ LAG and Horror Show. And that would even everything out.


Then what would be the point in playing the match in the first place? why not just throw points at everyone because "lol".

Seriously, if this is the kind of logic you are going to put into any discussion about making a fair competitive season... i'm out, if I facepalmed harder my hand would be coming out of the back of my head.


I dont understand how this doesnt make sense, if your team was the lowest seeded team in the bracket. And your team was the ONLY team to play ATV a 2nd time and you got a 4-0 win against them being the team thats seeded 1 above them. Why wouldnt the other teams that are better then the one that played ATV not get a 4-0.

If you guys got a 2-2 against them then the other teams would just get 2 points.


How, in any way, shape or form does that make for a fair competition?.. so for ATV to lose 1 match means that EVERY other team gets points... wow... kick them while they are down.

Back on track with the discussion though, My opinion (take it or leave it) is that we should all play each other once, and then go straight to semi-finals... if people insist that they should be given a chance to "prove that they have improved" then do the 2nd vs 3rd + 4th vs 5th thing that I suggested.

There is no reason to make it more complicated or more convoluted just to provide teams with "more matches".

I'm going to stop responding now because I have shit I need to do and then a PCW, but i'll check back on the forums after that.
"Out with the gorge, into the ready room" F4 - iSay
Tico
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3 November 2016 - 14:28 EDT
#35
There is no going straight to playoffs, because the playoffs include div 2b. Like i dont get what youre not understanding about this. YOULL BE WAITING MONTH WITH NO MATCHES. Because the playoffs are split... div 2b NEEDS to be done before div 2 playoffs start. And they currently arent having any issues with their schedules...

Like i said if all the teams are alright with waiting then im fine with it.
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3 November 2016 - 14:37 EDT
#36
Div2B has the same fucked up system FYI. I kinda support Kash here, implement his stuff for both div2s imo.
Kash
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3 November 2016 - 14:46 EDT
#37
Tico says
There is no going straight to playoffs, because the playoffs include div 2b. Like i dont get what youre not understanding about this. YOULL BE WAITING MONTH WITH NO MATCHES. Because the playoffs are split... div 2b NEEDS to be done before div 2 playoffs start. And they currently arent having any issues with their schedules...

Like i said if all the teams are alright with waiting then im fine with it.


caperp says
Div2B has the same fucked up system FYI. I kinda support Kash here, implement his stuff for both div2s imo.


^^

Both 2a and 2b suffer the same issue, the only way to provide a fair system is to fix both.

Like I said before, I do respect and appreciate the time you've put in so far Tico, and I really do hate to be an annoyance (which believe me, I understand that that is exactly what I'm being at the moment) So I do apologize for the way this is being done and any extra work it creates. I just want the season to be as fair as possible.
"Out with the gorge, into the ready room" F4 - iSay
Tico
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3 November 2016 - 15:03 EDT
#38
Kash says
Tico says
There is no going straight to playoffs, because the playoffs include div 2b. Like i dont get what youre not understanding about this. YOULL BE WAITING MONTH WITH NO MATCHES. Because the playoffs are split... div 2b NEEDS to be done before div 2 playoffs start. And they currently arent having any issues with their schedules...

Like i said if all the teams are alright with waiting then im fine with it.


caperp says
Div2B has the same fucked up system FYI. I kinda support Kash here, implement his stuff for both div2s imo.


^^

Both 2a and 2b suffer the same issue, the only way to provide a fair system is to fix both.

Like I said before, I do respect and appreciate the time you've put in so far Tico, and I really do hate to be an annoyance (which believe me, I understand that that is exactly what I'm being at the moment) So I do apologize for the way this is being done and any extra work it creates. I just want the season to be as fair as possible.


I dont thinks its an annoyance i understand the predicament. However i am open to limitimg the season to one match and just rescheduling them so they finish up around when div 1 finishes their round robin.

But I WILL NOT DO IT unless every team in these brackets is on board with this change. I want to see all the team leaders of these teams to post in this forum to post that they agree. As for now since that has yet to happen continue to play the season as it has been. Please. Once the teams have agreed i can just remove the results from the duplicate games.

We can also try to form a more organized solution to kash's proposal in the mean time. Because I do think the idea you prosposed kash could work fine, it just has to be worked out a little more.
CmdrKeen
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3 November 2016 - 16:08 EDT
#39
Tico says
div 2b NEEDS to be done before div 2 playoffs start. And they currently arent having any issues with their schedules...


As a member of Div2b, I can say this statement is false. See my last post on page 1.

Tico says

I want to see all the team leaders of these teams to post in this forum to post that they agree. As for now since that has yet to happen continue to play the season as it has been. Please. Once the teams have agreed i can just remove the results from the duplicate games.

We can also try to form a more organized solution to kash's proposal in the mean time. Because I do think the idea you prosposed kash could work fine, it just has to be worked out a little more.


I'd be fine with either solution, I like Kash's proposal a bit more than simply canceling the 2nd encounters.
Tico
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3 November 2016 - 16:23 EDT
#40
we dont have to cancel the matches, they can still be played. Just the score wont be officially marked.
Kash
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3 November 2016 - 16:56 EDT
#41
Tico says
we dont have to cancel the matches, they can still be played. Just the score wont be officially marked.


I am 100% okay with this btw, I'm happy to play whoever, whenever we are free. always have been. I just want the official "on the recond" stuff to be as fair for everyone as possible... there is no honor in winning a season if you did it with handholding.
"Out with the gorge, into the ready room" F4 - iSay
Tico
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3 November 2016 - 17:26 EDT
#42
For now just play the games and the duplicate matches may or may not be scored. :D
Bicsum
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3 November 2016 - 18:09 EDT
#43
better prepare your wallets guys
DCDarkling
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3 November 2016 - 19:14 EDT
#44
Time for me to pitch in I guess. :)

Im with the following 2 ideas:
* Skipping all 2nd matches.
* Doing the thing Kash suggested.

I am... not convinced with the whole "For now just play the games and the duplicate matches may or may not be scored. :D".
It leaves the door open for scoring unfair matches, and unfair matches were the whole idea to not play them to begin with.

Having 'only' 4 matches is no issue. The scene is currently active, folk from other divs also want to play, everyone wants to play. Everyone is present. If folk dont play officials, we play PCW.
My main vote is 'go for 1 each and fix it next season with a better system'.

Kash
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3 November 2016 - 19:28 EDT
#45
Tico says
For now just play the games and the duplicate matches will not be scored. :D


I fixed it for you Tico.
"Out with the gorge, into the ready room" F4 - iSay
Tico
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3 November 2016 - 19:29 EDT
#46
DCDarkling says
Time for me to pitch in I guess. :)

Im with the following 2 ideas:
* Skipping all 2nd matches.
* Doing the thing Kash suggested.

I am... not convinced with the whole "For now just play the games and the duplicate matches may or may not be scored. :D".
It leaves the door open for scoring unfair matches, and unfair matches were the whole idea to not play them to begin with.

Having 'only' 4 matches is no issue. The scene is currently active, folk from other divs also want to play, everyone wants to play. Everyone is present. If folk dont play officials, we play PCW.
My main vote is 'go for 1 each and fix it next season with a better system'.



If youre ok with just playing PCWs thats fine, we dont have to keep the 2nd matches. It was just an idea to give the teams something to play while div 1 was still playing their matches.

Regardless i still will not be reverting to the single match system until a team leader from most the div 2 teams posts on this thread.
Rebel
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4 November 2016 - 06:39 EDT
#47
Why can't we do full playoffs?
1 round robin for both D2A and D2B. First 4 teams from each div go to playoffs.
http://challonge.com/tournaments/bracket_generator?ref=xpGMCp6iIy
Or even something like this: http://i.imgur.com/OCNu1x3.png then all 8 teams will have matches till the end. The only exception is 5th teams in each div.

openyafaceup
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4 November 2016 - 10:24 EDT
#48
Ok so I have been asked to have input on this - here is my input fix ur shit NSL

*1st of all fix the duplicated matches there is no need for them ( same thing happened last season and were removed why should it be a different format if it is its confusing the fek out of ppl ) im not too fused tbh but seems a waste of my time a a great deal of other peoples as well trying to sort international matches is a pain in the bum (fun but a pain ) and why is div 2 a and div 2b ply times a moth apart ....boggles me

2nd *I was under the impression we would have a server to play on that would give us mutual 150 ping for euros so far was 250 our way to 150 there's max .


just remove the matches plz the nsl is retreated enough without this nonsense !

CRaZyCAT
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4 November 2016 - 11:47 EDT
#49
As leader and player of Horror Show I was very happy to see our second match against HBZ and iSay, it is the most desired opponent for us. Like a Glove (hard schedule) and ATV (low skill) is less desired so I'm very happy to play this official matches and will get very frustrated if you want to deny this exciting matches owing to iSay who doesn't want to play ATV twice.

What about scores? I do not care about scores (absolutely) all I want is to play official matches and conquer other contestants as much as my team can.
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CRaZyCAT
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4 November 2016 - 11:57 EDT
#50
And yeah despite that I said in my post I respect other teams wishes so if others (majority) want to cancel matches I will accept that without complaints and drama
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DCDarkling
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4 November 2016 - 16:11 EDT
#51
Just a side note. But a important one. I know more people said it, but let me put it out anyway.

It is not bad to have some teams play more then 1 match if its FAIR.
A example..

Lets take the top 2 teams. If the 1 matches each are done, they won right?
Lets assume those are iSay and Horror Show.
Now if both those teams want to have a final vs each other after they played every team once, why not?
Then let the 3rd and 4th play also if they so please.
Hell make the 5th in both subdivisions play each other if you want. Presto, much more fair.

If anyone sees any mistakes in the above, just dont do it. Fairness first, we can always PCW!
Rundervinkje
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5 November 2016 - 06:34 EDT
#52
We wouldn't have this problem in the first place if people with experience all started new teams and learned the noobs (thats me) instead of all joining together and owning said noobs. So there. You are all the problem!

But for a more serious opinion. We joined to get hands-on experience. More matches = more experience. If those two extra matches don't count, people will try strange tactics and give less experience for my team. And therefore I couldn't care less but prefer the original scheme.

Then: (I'll let you in on a secret) We lost our matches on purpose so we could dominate in our rematch with CI. Underdog style. If that match suddenly doesnt count. Our losses will have been for nothing.

Furthermore, I would suggest people take this a little bit less serious and start having fun. Let's focus on the bigger issue, we have a ginger in our team!

As always, make pizza! not war.
Kash
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5 November 2016 - 06:37 EDT
#53
Lol, you just came to a competitive scene and told people not to take it seriously XD

but fair enough, so far its what 5 - 2 on the "we want to see this shit changed" meter.... only 3 more teams to comment and we can get on with the season.
"Out with the gorge, into the ready room" F4 - iSay
Tico
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5 November 2016 - 09:48 EDT
#54
Rundervinkje says

Furthermore, I would suggest people take this a little bit less serious and start having fun. Let's focus on the bigger issue, we have a ginger in our team!

As always, make pizza! not war.


I like the way you think.

On a more serious note it is favoring for changes atm. Hopefully we can all come to an agreement so the season can continue. :D
Bicsum
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5 November 2016 - 10:25 EDT
#55
HBZ is for playing each team only once.

It's not just about fairness and equal chances, but I also think it is better to keep the season short.
NS2 reaches its player count peak around december / january, so we should start a new season in january and maybe get some more teams.

In with the new, while keeping the old, I say.
Kash
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5 November 2016 - 11:23 EDT
#56
Bicsum says
In with the new, while keeping the old, I say.


I less-than-three this.
"Out with the gorge, into the ready room" F4 - iSay
DCDarkling
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5 November 2016 - 18:30 EDT
#57
My team (ATV) is filled with people who played a bit of comp (newcomer tournament) and who never played comp.
So its not true that no team takes new people in. (Although few do)

But that is NOT the problem. Even if you have 6 new teams, in those 6 new some are bound to be better then other teams.
Not playing each team the same amount still gives for a unfair advantage.

Your comment about more matches = more experience is unrelated. How can you get more experience?
PCWs.
If you think 'strange tactics' do not count as experience, then I have news for you. They do. Many teams actually try different stuff in officials BECAUSE the default strategies are predictable. If you always do the same, your enemy will just make a strategy to perfectly counter it.

If you gave away a match then thats sort of your problem. And even more silly since you said that you want more officials to gain experience.
You dont get that with throwing the match.
Tico
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7 November 2016 - 13:12 EST
#58
To give a bit of an update, not every team has stated their feelings about the change yet. But im thinking the best course of action will most likely be limiting the season to the 1 match per team. I will have a much more detailed update later in week on this situation.

I just wanted to get something out there. So people didnt think this was forgetten or anything.
Kash
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23 November 2016 - 09:19 EST
#59
Tico says
To give a bit of an update, not every team has stated their feelings about the change yet. But im thinking the best course of action will most likely be limiting the season to the 1 match per team. I will have a much more detailed update later in week on this situation.

I just wanted to get something out there. So people didnt think this was forgetten or anything.



its been a bit longer than "this week" can we get an update please.
"Out with the gorge, into the ready room" F4 - iSay
Tico
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23 November 2016 - 12:43 EST
#60
Kash says
Tico says
To give a bit of an update, not every team has stated their feelings about the change yet. But im thinking the best course of action will most likely be limiting the season to the 1 match per team. I will have a much more detailed update later in week on this situation.

I just wanted to get something out there. So people didnt think this was forgetten or anything.



its been a bit longer than "this week" can we get an update please.


Yes, tomorrow, the schedules will be adjusted. Any teams that have played duplicate matches the scores will be redacted and i will be taking the score from the first played match between the 2 teams.

I apologize deeply about the delays, ive been so busy its unreal. Tomorrow is the first time in a while ill be able to have time to adjust the schedules.
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