onFire

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4

Envy

NSL Season 4 - Division 1

Saturday 29 March 2014
06:00 CET

Predictions (0)

onFire
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0%
Envy

Comments

4231

Blank Vindaloo

I am pretty sure we have to reschedule to next weekend. There is realy only 2 times possible, not sure yet when I will actually have the players. 23 BST (+1 GMT Summer time) Saturday or 2pm BST Sunday. Let's talk on steam 'bout this next week.

27 March 2014, 23:51

Noavatar

Blank nezz | Envy

Hit me up, will discuss availability with you.

30 March 2014, 17:51

4231

Blank Vindaloo

So I didn't get any response form you on steam for 2 days, so gonna write it here. We only have time that fits your timezone kinda Sunday afternoon, your evening. Say 2pm CEST/1pm BST, should be 11pm Sunday Sydney time.
What you say?

3 April 2014, 22:46

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Blank nezz | Envy

Sorry, been away from home dealing with family issues. That time is way to late for our players for a sunday night given that most player start work at 00500. Defer till following weekend if aloud.

4 April 2014, 10:17

4231

Blank Vindaloo

I think we could try a bit earlier, what's the latest you are willing to play? Remember descent is gonna be quick. :)

4 April 2014, 12:05

4231

Blank Vindaloo

It's well past the 24h deadline and I haven't heard from you on steam either. Gonna let my players know the match tomorrow isn't happening.

5 April 2014, 17:35

4666

Blank SUPER_SARS

Envy forfeits

8 April 2014, 11:01

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Blank nezz | Envy

That's really disappointing super_sars. There's exterior motives why envy was unavailable to produce a time for this match & the hardness of contacting each other. or requiring days in between conversations.

You should really talk to team captains & discuss a more open investigation as to why this wasn't played by a shitty deadline that was posted up about 3 days before the round was over, About the same day that round 1 was extended to.

Noted for future games.

Either way, Congrats on your 4-0 victory onFire. Well deserved.

8 April 2014, 13:59

3639

Blank Zefram

SUPER_SARS did hand out this forfeit prematurely, but since this match isn't going to be played out in the next day, it would still be my decision to call it that. The rules are clear when the deadline for matches are. It's 10 days from the posted date on the website. It wasn't some arbitrary date set a few weeks ago. The rules were written months ago and asked for review. The rules also say the match page communications are the only determination for forfeits. Admittedly, there's been a failure by Envy to communicate anything through the match page or Steam. The forfeit will stand if the game doesn't get played by the end of today. In the future, if there is an issue with a captain, other team members need to step in and handle the match situation.

8 April 2014, 16:57

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Blank nezz | Envy

And that's where there's a blackspot. I've communicated where i could given family issues & the likes. The times they offered weren't sufficient & due conversations lasting about 3-4 lines which take 2-3 days to discuss it makes it very hard to schedule with a team that isn't extremely flexible. Especially when they were in the first place asking to delay for a week (7+3 = 10). So really given that they wanted to delay for a week taht has given my team 3 days to accept some bullshit times or forfiet. & my inactivity.

Saying, We could play a little earlier barely helps when trying to set something in concrete over timezones.

GG thnx for the game.

8 April 2014, 18:44

3639

Blank Zefram

Almost everyone on your roster is listed as a leader. Any one of them could have picked up your slack and made contact with the other team. Yet, there was no communication even on this match page until a forfeit was declared.

8 April 2014, 23:01

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Blank nezz | Envy

that argument works both ways. Oh well.

9 April 2014, 06:54

3578

Blank ritual

play it anyways! I wanna watch! :p

9 April 2014, 08:32

774

Blank Arj | Ant

Retarded forfeit.

9 April 2014, 13:45

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Blank nezz | Envy

^

13 April 2014, 00:16

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Blank bonage | JUST THE TIP

Is there any reason why this can't be played on the weekend of the 19th Apr? It would appear both teams have no scheduled games then. Given that this is an international game in 2 of the hardest timezones to match up, as well as realistically only having weekends to play these sort of games, surely this can be arranged?

It seems both teams are at fault here, with onfire not available for the first weekend, and then envy not available for the 2nd due to extenuating circumstances. I would hope that for the good of the game and spirit of sportsmanship that this can be arranged.

13 April 2014, 04:58

Noavatar

Blank OutSiDeR | Like A Glove

this is fucked and unfair, onfire should forfeit. I didnt get any messages from any of their team. On the other hand ARJ from another team (which had a more delayed game). Made the effort to contact me and we played the game.

13 April 2014, 12:37

774

Blank Arj | Ant

If this isn't played, division 1 outcome can be considered a joke.

13 April 2014, 16:03

4810

Blank Sohma | onFire

Funny thing, why didn't you asked us to play on saturday when you played against Ant, which was supposed to be played week 4?
Because we were available.
Did you even try to ask for a date?
So we've got to make all the effort into contacting each and everyone of the player in your team to get one who can actually make some decision and on your side you're making 0 effort to schedule the game? Sounds fair indeed.

13 April 2014, 21:10

4231

Blank Vindaloo

No no no, no need to pull everyone into this who knows nothing about it. The thing is I offered earlier time since you said it's too late for you, but there was no response here or on steam, you were online PLAYING both friday and saturday and I wrote you at those times too. You could have just answered.

13 April 2014, 22:41

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Blank nezz | Envy

Sohma, that ant game was a last minute decision. Finished roughly 1AM our time. Something OuTSiDeR scheduled since i was unavailable at first. Actually, i'm sure i messaged Vindaloo the time i joind in the ANT game to see if he was online. If vindaloo looked at his chat logs i tried to get it sorted for Sunday at about 11pm our time. With no response. Infact some Ryssk guy contacted me hassling me about scheduling this match saying that vindaloo was probably out drinking which is acceptable for a saturday.

Vindaloo, You didn't offer a early time you stated "we might be able to play earlier" Mate, I'm scheduling a international game here it's either yes or no. No one wants to turn up & have to wait becuase you might have 6 on earlier, Yes, i do take responsibility for not harrasing, replying to you as quick as possible.

I would like this match to personally go ahead. I think the decision to forfiet should only be valid if onFire really don't want to play us. Either way, I'm not extremely worried upset.

14 April 2014, 00:20

Noavatar

Blank w00t | Like A Glove

I spoke with zefram and accepted their decision but that was without the knowledge of any of this. While we accept that the rest of us haven't really picked up the slack without Nezz being around, i see no reason why if Envy and Onfire aren't playing this weekend why then this match can't be played. If Onfire is willing we'd be happy to schedule a match then.

14 April 2014, 08:15

4231

Blank Vindaloo

Even thou we could play some other time, I don't think making exceptions in rules is a good thing to do. Can snowball heavily. From the ref/admin perspective everything is decided and there is no reason to talk about this anymore, except as example for rule changes going into next season. It is ultimately Zefram's decision thou.

14 April 2014, 11:05

Noavatar

Blank w00t | Like A Glove

How can it snowball quickly? The only reason i see there is that you prefer a an easy forfeit victory instead of testing yourself against a team you've never played before, most teams i know prefer to play as opposed to not. All we're basically doing is moving the bye a week earlier.

If Nezz offered a time in the previous week and was ok with rescheduling the following week yet he couldn't because of his personal issues then you should be generous enough to extend us that courtesy. If you had a game this week then fair enough, but you don't.

We've accepted this forfeit, but don't hide behind rules because you prefer an easy "win" without having to play. I am almost certain any team that actually enjoy challenging themselves would not say such a thing.

14 April 2014, 15:02

4231

Blank Vindaloo

Are you not understanding me? I wrote we could play. It's not my decision, it's Zefram's. And snowballing is not about our teams but the leagues as in if we let one exception then more and more, then why have the rules at all. I am not hiding behind anything. Calm down.

14 April 2014, 15:41

Noavatar

Blank nezz | Envy

Super_sars & zefram forced the forfiet. Not onFire. Before even discussing with either captain about why this game was yet to be played. Don't get that mixed up w0k in a b0x. If they won't allow this game to go ahead i pitty that decision. It's highly "Nazi" of them considering we have 2 bye weeks in a 8 week season. NOW a 3rd bye week due to the koreans pulling out.

I don't think Zefram fully understands the circumstances when scheduling between AU & EU games. Since he has never had to do it. Unfortunately really. #plsletusplay

14 April 2014, 17:00

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Blank w00t | Like A Glove

My point being is that if you consider rules to be laws that is they should be unchangeable and consistent then you should also consider that exceptions be allowed.

Things should always be done case by case, and in this particular scenario nothing but good comes from us actually play this game as opposed to a forfeit.

Again admins have a final decision and we are likely to try and appeal that decision given that we can schedule a match for this weekend but this requires OnFire's support and not just Envys. I'd rather lose 4-0 in game than accept a forfeit because that just doesn't make sense when its possible to play.

It'd actually be nazi of the admins to deny us the opportunity of playing if both teams are willing.

14 April 2014, 20:45

774

Blank Arj | Ant

Remove deadlines for weeks to avoid this kind of situation in a highly international division.

There is 1 deadline; finish all matches before the division end deadline.

OR, put all EU vs AUS matches in the end of the season to give enough time to schedule.

If you don't do either of these options, there will be sure forfeits, which we don't want.


Based on what I've read here; onFire didn't make enough effort to get this to work, and got a retarded forfeit.

16 April 2014, 11:32

Noavatar

Blank nezz | Envy

There needs to be some leniency when it comes to EU vs AU matches. It's alot harder to schedule a time then AU VS US or US vs EU.

I don't think onfire was to blame for this. Moreso the rules & the admining of the rules. every decision should be a case by case matter taking into consideration the facts.

This could inevitably ruin the outcome of this season & paint a poor picture wether i put forward a team for any upcoming ENSL run tournaments or not.

There's been no further communication from admins so unfortunately this will sit as a forfiet.

I agree with Arj. There should be one deadline. Last week of season & then the team that made "less of a effort" will be forfietted.

16 April 2014, 11:42

5291

Blank Pelargir | No Brain No Skill

"(iv) Once a time is agreed upon, both teams need to confirm that time by leaving a comment on the match page and ONLY the match page. Admins will refer to the match page if a scheduling conflict arises."

As onFire & Zefram already wrote on this comment, there was no communication from your team, the only thing we can see it's some attempts from Vindaloo on this page, that's all. And ofc, after the deadline, some news from you.

"Sohma, that ant game was a last minute decision. Finished roughly 1AM our time." We can see there: http://www.ensl.org/matches/5557 First message from Arj, you could reschedule it to 12th April to play onFire before, week 2 was priority than week 4.

Btw, Arj, this is not your problem (there's no mention to Ant here). A decision was taken by Zefram, no more. It's pretty sad to see AUS teams do the same shit on this season, this is not like AusNS2 & rules are different, matches pages are very importants, you cannot avoid them & talk only on Steam.

Yeah, there's a problem with the deadline, yes, it's harder between AUS & EU teams, my team has to play againt one of AUS teams, hard to find a good day, but with communication from both teams & many weeks before the deadline, we could find a good day to do it.

If you have any problem with the rules, you can give your feedback on the forum. This one seems to be impossibe to be changed during the season but that can improved next seasons.

16 April 2014, 17:07

Noavatar

Blank nezz | Envy

Sorry, i think you misread the first post. onFire couldn't play the week dedicated for this match. This was our first match of ENSL since week 1 was a bye.

Pelgarir, Your team has 4-5 weeks to schedule a match against an Australian team. We had 1 week to schedule with a team since they were unable to play on the dedicated week. Possibly the most retarded point to form a "debat" over. REMEMBER THIS IS A WEEK 2 MATCH NOT A WEEK 5 MATCH LIKE YOURS!

Because onFire couldn't play the week dedicated for this match you would think that they should be forfietted even if they seem to make more a effort to schedule after the dedicated week for this match.

I really can't be bothered giving feedback, Admins need to take thing case by case & actually talk to teams regarding scheduling issues. Instead of trying to be a hard ass & flexing your e-peen over a game that has 500 players.
Never had a previous issue with previous admins/rules.

There is no difference between this and AUSNS2 rules. Just we can play 7 days a week vs australians. not 1 or 2 days a week & if the other team says they can't play the dedicated week then we get forfieted.


Pathetic really.

16 April 2014, 18:39

Noavatar

Blank nezz | Envy

http://postimg.org/image/oxg78494l/

Take a look. This was 2-3 days b4 the forfiet. No response. Also it was mid way thru our ant game or something.

16 April 2014, 18:55

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Blank Taz | -/AUS/-

"this is not like AusNS2 & rules are different, matches pages are very importants, you cannot avoid them & talk only on Steam."

Not sure why you included this slight here. The AusNS2 league system has a time suggestion system which we use for this exact purpose and we have a history of being more strict on match times than ENSL. Every single match got played this league.

Only two matches were played outside the round they were meant to be in and even then only by a couple of days. Both times there were exigent circumstances and admins stepped in to speak to both teams and get communication on track, as would seem sensible.

Find someone else to use as your example please.

17 April 2014, 05:01

2129

Blank swalk | Shoobs

Pretty bad to forfeit games like this one. Especially in one teams favor, it should have been a double forfeit (0-0) if you really want to forfeit the match.

It's ALWAYS better to have the games played than not, that should always be priority for admins, not some deadline. Obviously unless other games are waiting(ie. playoffs).

From what I know the stricter rules were made because teams were deliberately pushing their match schedules to get extra practice time and whatnot, not to force unnessesary forfeits.

Meh, this is just sad to watch. The league is really degenerating.. Robots are taking over, what's wrong with using common sense these days? This is shameful.

18 April 2014, 01:14

3639

Blank Zefram

After talking with nezz and hearing more about the situation, I'm letting this match be played. Schedule it, play it, report the score to me.

18 April 2014, 20:20

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Blank nezz | Envy

Given a few times to vindaloo for 26th/27th 10-12AEST /1-3PM CET. Advised we we can obviously be quite flexible about a early start if if he requires, But not to much later then Midnight (3pm CET).

Preferably a Sunday game.

19 April 2014, 11:29

4231

Blank Vindaloo

Alright didn't have chance to talk to everyone, but I think we could do it this weekend, should know tonight/tomorrow.

22 April 2014, 11:17

4231

Blank Vindaloo

Looks like we are good to go Sunday 27th 2pm CEST. Please confirm that it's OK with you and let's duke it out. :)

22 April 2014, 23:44

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Blank nezz | Envy

2PM CEEST = 11PM AEST. Confirmed.

23 April 2014, 02:41

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Blank Lucas2616

2PM CEST = 10PM AEST

23 April 2014, 04:55

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Blank nezz | Envy

^ what lucas said 2pm CEST = 10PM AEST. Confirmed.

23 April 2014, 04:59

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Blank nezz | Envy

4-0 envy

27 April 2014, 15:08

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