What is a casual gather, and what is a try hard gather? Where is the line drawn between playing and wanting to win versus being a try hard? Give us tangible, measurable things. Don't just put out hopes and dreams and leave it to others to do the hard work.

There is already a split.
We have pub, gather (more organized pub) and clanwars wich is exactly what you want.
So how about playing more pcws instead of splitting the gather.

Well, i heard it took ages to start a gather right now.
Good luck to fill a "pro" gather.
What a stupid idea.

And how is the weather on your planet?

dePARA says

So how about playing more pcws

hey friend, welcome to ns2, i'm sorry to tell you that pcws are dead on high level play.

dePARA says

i heard

here we go again, someone judging gathers based on what OTHERS said about gathers - sadly those OTHERS NEVER PLAY GATHEERS ASDHIOASIPDHASDOASDHPASdasdklgu1q47890ü 2356

@Simba, I think there actually is a line somewhere between people's attitudes regarding gathers. I mean take Mega as an example, he'd play gathers only in casual mode because tryharding is not a thing for him, he says that himself. Then take Schu as an example, he'd only play gathers to win (and hopefully only casual gathers when he's drunk again). And I believe there are many people who are in between these 2 mindsets, who'd play both comp and casual gathers. I'm pretty sure there are a lot people who'd start playing gathers if a competitive mindset was enforced in tryhard gathers, and maybe some people would come back to casual gathers to have some fun in a game where people don't get upset when they lose - where they just play to play, not play to win. I honestly think this could be a good idea if people were up for testing it.

Currently, Gathers are not suitable for rookies at all... if someone new were to try and join a gather, they would not enjoy it at all... a more "casual" gather would lead to people being less likely to get pissy, which tbh, is the ideal thing to advertise on the UWE forums and maybe get UWE to put in the main menu of NS2, leading to Comp growth and people having a middle ground between pub and comp.

The more serious "try hard" gather is for people to take seriously, kind of like a mixed scrim/PCW, where communication and response times are expected to be good, where you can train/practice the shit you need to when your teammates are offline.

There is your line, there are your reasons to do separate gathers... it isn't intended to "split" the already small community, its intended to open the doors to more people... how many players just stopped playing comp because they got left behind when their team splits/the leader joins a new team etc but they didn't like gathers for whatever reason? most of those people stop playing NS2 all together because pub is too boring and they don't know enough people to build a team... the Casual gathers would be a good place to do that.

Either way, if 2 types of gathers were to be founded and people needed to test them, I would be very happy to volunteer, and i'm sure a lot of other people would too.

Kash says

Currently, Gathers are not suitable for rookies at all... if someone new were to try and join a gather, they would not enjoy it at all...

That really depends on the person. I have personally seen quite a few new players come to play gathers and stick around to play more.

maxamus says

I NEVER play gathers ever but I totally know everything there is to know about them because I spectate one every once in a while, makes perfect sense right guys???

Note: Quote is paraphrased

Honestly people like you are the problem with how gathers are viewed. You bitch and moan about how gathers are toxic and it's always the same players with the same shitty behavior, yet you have no idea what you're talking about since you don't even play said gathers. Yes you're allowed an opinion, but if it's uninformed, kindly don't broadcast it to everyone around you, it makes you look stupid.

And FYI gathers have been more alive then they have been in a while. I have been playing gathers a long time and I honestly can't recall the last time there were enough players to play 3 concurrent gathers, but it was definitely months (if not years) ago and it has been happening often in the past few weeks. You can say it's because of the holidays, however facts are facts: there are more people playing gathers now then there have been for a while, so you're flat out wrong to say they are more dead than ever, but how would you know that since you don't even play gathers. Look at that, another UNINFORMED opinion.


Moving on to the main point:
As someone that has been gathering for a while now, I can say with certainty that:
-most gathers and their players are NOT toxic whatsoever

-Almost all players that play gathers (no matter their skill level, and no matter how new to the game they are) have a relatively competitive attitude, play to win, and work with their team.

The lack of team work that Schu posted about I believe is a symptom of having players with very different skill levels play together. While to some players with more experience, it's super basic to be able to actually play the game, look at your map every so often and on top of that listen to all the calls the team makes, this is not always the case for newer players or lower skilled ones.
Most of the time when a call isn't obeyed, it's not because the player is doing it on purpose, it's because he's focusing on something else, or he believes that whoever made the call wasn't making the call to him specifically. Hence, what seems like a lack of teamwork is actually just a player making a mistake.

My point basically is: Most players in gathers do want to play as a team, and do play to win, however no one can play perfectly, players will always make mistakes, however this doesn't mean they aren't willing to play as a team.


As for separating gathers for casual and competitive, it could possibly work with higher player numbers, however with the current state of ns2 comp I think it would do more harm than good for the reasons other people mentioned. Either way, as I said before, most gather players have a competitive attitude, (even if sometimes mistakes are confused with uncooperative attitudes) so I think separating gathers isn't necessary.


TLDR: Most players WANT to work as a team, however mistakes are being perceived as uncooperative attitudes

"From mobile will be typos"
Lol the max bashing is real!! So basically because don't play gathers because of reasons, I don't have any say on what I have seen over the last lot of months??

And it's not just spectating a gather, these forums are proof enough, the type of bans certain players get banned for.

But anyway it don't matter, at the rate this is going none will want to play gathers any more, because instead of trying to justify / defebd certain behaviours, maybe the focus should be, "ok, but what would make you and others come back and play gathers" this topic is a good start.

But as for paraphrasing me and taking what I said out of context, well done. If that's gonna be the case and how it is, all I can say is enjoy your gathers they won't last much longer with this attitude.

All anyone wants is the best for gathers and the NSL so get of my fucking back.

maxamus says

So basically because don't play gathers because of reasons, I don't have any say on what I have seen over the last lot of months??

Yup.

You cant have an accurate view by just randomly spectating some gathers.

[quote=Paskie] maxamus says

So basically because don't play gathers because of reasons, I don't have any say on what I have seen over the last lot of months??

Yup.

You cant have an accurate view by just randomly spectating some gathers

Lol well I am not the only person that has voiced concerns and I guess this is reason why the NSL is slowly dieing because when someone speaks up the so called "players that welcome others" just beat you, brings you to there level and beats you with there own stupidity.

Good luck, am pretty much done trying to voice concerns, if nothing improves, it won't be long until there is only 1 division playing matches and next to no gathers.

Not that it really matters, but take a step back and look / think, why are these topics poping up? Why are people upset? And how can you improve players opinions not only on gathers but NSL as a whole.

Stop trying to justify toxic actions of the few, that cause this impact on the many.

Just wanted to let everybody who doesn't play them that the gathers have been more active the past week or 2 than I've ever seen them.

We're constantly having 2 gathers going at busy times, sometimes 3. It's no longer the struggle for just 1 full gather B)

kmacg says

Just wanted to let everybody who doesn't play them that the gathers have been more active the past week or 2 than I've ever seen them.

We're constantly having 2 gathers going at busy times, sometimes 3. It's no longer the struggle for just 1 full gather B)

Yeah but then you get a comm that drops 6 shells or 2 arms labs and fails to med people... and who wants to play a game with a comm like that B)

Kash says

kmacg says

Just wanted to let everybody who doesn't play them that the gathers have been more active the past week or 2 than I've ever seen them.

We're constantly having 2 gathers going at busy times, sometimes 3. It's no longer the struggle for just 1 full gather B)

Yeah but then you get a comm that drops 6 shells or 2 arms labs and fails to med people... and who wants to play a game with a comm like that B)

I can only think of one person stupid enough to do that.

[quote=maxamus] Paskie says

maxamus says

So basically because don't play gathers because of reasons, I don't have any say on what I have seen over the last lot of months??

Yup.

You cant have an accurate view by just randomly spectating some gathers

Lol well I am not the only person that has voiced concerns and I guess this is reason why the NSL is slowly dieing because when someone speaks up the so called "players that welcome others" just beat you, brings you to there level and beats you with there own stupidity.

Good luck, am pretty much done trying to voice concerns, if nothing improves, it won't be long until there is only 1 division playing matches and next to no gathers.

Not that it really matters, but take a step back and look / think, why are these topics poping up? Why are people upset? And how can you improve players opinions not only on gathers but NSL as a whole.

Stop trying to justify toxic actions of the few, that cause this impact on the many.

I really cant see how you have been "beat on". Just play some gathers without wanting to think that they are bad and THEN come back making such vocal opinions public.

Paskie says

Kash says

kmacg says

Just wanted to let everybody who doesn't play them that the gathers have been more active the past week or 2 than I've ever seen them.

We're constantly having 2 gathers going at busy times, sometimes 3. It's no longer the struggle for just 1 full gather B)

Yeah but then you get a comm that drops 6 shells or 2 arms labs and fails to med people... and who wants to play a game with a comm like that B)

I can only think of one person stupid enough to do that.

Oh I'm sure me and Kmacg can think of at least one :P

maxamus says

If i am wrong, then great! i want to be wrong! [...] again correct me if i am wrong, please do, like i said, i want to be wrong, i hope i am,

*people correct you*

maxamus says

Lol the max bashing is real!! So basically because don't play gathers because of reasons, I don't have any say on what I have seen over the last lot of months??

*gets mad*

OK so please, you realize that everyone is speaking against you, yes? Now, when everyone says that you (and the other people who "voiced their concerns" - who don't play gathers either i take it?) are wrong, could you PLEASE stop bashing gathers????? You legit said you wanted to be corrected if you were wrong, and now you get mad????
AND YOU SAY THE GATHER ATTITUDE IS WHY THE NSL DIES????????????????
HHAHAHAHHAHHAHAHAAHHAAHHAHAHH
Please, just think about what you are saying here, stop trying to stir up drama.
Most of what you said in this thread has been completely uninformed and simply wrong. The gather community from a year back was DEAD, there were NO GATHERS at all. Gathers started growing again when pugs died, we started having like 3 gathers a day, yay. Look at what it is now. Players from WAY BACK start playing again, because there are gathers. When was the last time you saw Godar players around? Probably like a year ago, since you don't play gathers.....

If you say there is a toxic attitude in gathers - then the logic would have to be "a toxic attitude brings more people to a community"
GREAT, we have the solution, we all have to go full retard and be toxic as fuck to revive the NSL. Let's go

maxamus says

Not that it really matters, but take a step back and look / think, why are these topics poping up? Why are people upset? And how can you improve players opinions not only on gathers but NSL as a whole.

These topics are popping up 1. because people care about gathers and want to improve them, as simple as that. AND 2. because we have some people in this community that are here only to troll, but w/e as long as they play and only troll in the forums, why not?

People are upset because PEOPLE ARE ALWAYS UPSET. If you think I'm wrong, correct me.

Thank you for your attention.

Stop spreading lies? How am I spreading lies? I have not once went out of this or the other topic, nor have I approached anyone else. All I ever want and am.sure others is the best for NSL and even gathers, THE FACT THAT THESE TOPICS EVEN EXIST PROVE THERE IS SOMETHING NOT RIGHT. So instead of "getting" mad, what are you doing, as a mod doing to improve opinions of ex gather players that have stop playing them for reasons already stated??

I think it's fantastic that players are coming back to play from years ago, that's good, but how many will stick around? Hw many will continue to gather once some of the players show there "true" colours.

If it really helps then just go ahead and fucking ban me? All that serves is my point being correct, that instead of facing these issue, all you are doing is threating to ban me for voicing my concerns???!

Good job being a "face" of the nsl/gather comunity.

I made this thread to spark awareness in the competitive playerbase that things needed to improve. The lack of teamwork I was talking about was a huge concern. It made it to the point where I didn't want to play gathers anymore. I got close to just uninstalling this game. With lack of scrims/pcws. No fun in pubs. I was left to play gathers in this game. Yea, some are good, can't lie about it. I do have fun when people are at least trying to win. Not giving up. Just trying to cooperate.

Unfortunately, there are players that don't give a shit. Some of you just join the gather, play your own way and expect everyone else to pick up the slack for you. You lose and don't care. It is so frustrating.

Yea, I hate losing. I do play gathers to win. However, if we end up losing and teamwork was involved and we did all we could, just got out played. I can't say people weren't trying. I like games like that. If you at least try, I can't argue about it.

The problem at hand is when a bunch of people who don't care join the gather. Don't want to help the team at all, don't communicate, don't try to pinch life forms, camp hallways and never push. Those games are shit. I'm sorry, I can't stand playing with mutes who don't call out damage numbers or if an RT is low. When the commander is trying to organize people to go to a phase gate location to build a gate and 2 others just assume "well, the other 3 got it!" and 2 fades and 2 lerks and a skulk rush those 3 and get destroyed. I'll be one of the 3 that went and look at the minimap and see the other 2 camping corner, not pushing up or at least TRYING to do something proactive.

So yea, i'm all for splitting up the community if I can not play with those types of people. I'd rather have 1 great gather than 10 shitty ones.

i'm not speaking as an admin, since i am none, everything i can do as a "MOD" is reset gathers, that's basically it.
i cant threaten to ban you, even if i wanted, i was merely trying to express my point.

my point was that people need to stop spreading rumors. you say some people say gathers are bad. so what do they base this opinion on? rumors. cool thing. where do these rumors come from? you and other people? i dont know. maybe they are based on one gather you observed that went to shit.
i dont really care afterall.

all i'm asking of you, is to stop saying things that are not true. please. please..

go ahead and find out for yourself how gathers suit you. but *PLEASE* stop saying things you have no facts for. thanks

Ok, I give up, I just don't think you can understand my concerns, all your doing is trying to defend previous actions that makes me have these concerns,

And I feel with your previous comments you wish to makes this personal when never once have I said any names nor will I, as this is not my intentions, like I said all I want is nsl and gathers to be playable without the childish crap that u have seen over this last year. Your reaction to my concerns simply show that I must be striking a nerve.

Again I'll say it, instead of focusing on the "omg what does this guy know, he has not played a gather in about 8 months" should be asking if this my concerns that others share, maybe you should focus on how to improve them, after all you where a player that used the name "no more toxic" in your name?

And you clearly did threat to ban me? I can't seem to find those now? Did you edit the part where you said to remove me? 14 years u have been around this game, and never have I seen sone one that only thinks small, no wonder UWE wants nothing to do with NSL....or am I wrong? Or miss informed?

Maxamus maybe gathering isn't for you, and that's completely understandable. But I personally do not think gathers are too toxic for new players. Yes when I play gathers I and others occasionally berg out, sometimes at new players, but it generally never goes past a single play. When I hear people raging, it's more of "COME ON MAN, I TOLD YOU TO ROTATE! WHY ARE YOU BEING SUCH A PUSSY AND JUST STANDING IN OXY WHEN I NEED YOU IN ORGAN!" Then it's done. If the person says something about it, I usually hear apologies to them and the person who raged saying not to worry about it and that they were just caught up in the play. Actual harassment in gathers is quite rare and I haven't seen it in a while. And to be honest, if you cannot handle some people getting invested into a game like that you probably shouldn't be gathering anyway since it's competitive in nature.

Also, the NSL is not slowly dying because people are afraid to speak up. It is slowly dying because the game is losing players overall (though hopefully this trend can be reversed).

my comment was edited by the admins, since you struck a nerve saying that i'm not fit to represent the NSL. and i agree. im not fit for that. because i get mad when someone does what you do. but that doesn't matter.

i can't ban people, AS I SAID. i can't threaten to ban people, AS I SAID..... i was merely expressing my point, im sorry i said that in a bigger community we should get rid of you. my apologies.

it's pretty obvious you're understanding this all on a personal level. saying i'm toxic based on what you heard and how you understood things. again, i dont really care what you think about me, although it's rather sad that you hate me now because i always liked you

MY reaction to your "concerns" simply show that i disagree with you so much that it hurts my brain. and other people agree with me there. those people happen to be the ones who play gathers. now, the only way i see to settle this is for you to try and play a gather, that's all i want. as i said before "go ahead and find out for yourself how gathers suit you. but *PLEASE* stop saying things you have no facts for. thanks"

play a gather and then say they're bad, that's good. then we can all like each other again. i don't want any more unnecessary drama about this. so please let's settle this

maxamus says

Ok, I give up

Praise the lord.

TLDR

Guy who doesn't play gathers says gathers are toxic.

Guys who play gathers discredit guy who doesn't play gather's claims.

Guy who doesn't play gathers says gathers are dying.

Gathers population is up 300% this last month.

Simba says

TLDR

Guy who doesn't play gathers says gathers are toxic.

Guys who play gathers discredit guy who doesn't play gather's claims.

Guy who doesn't play gathers says gathers are dying.

Gathers population is up 300% this last month.

Come on Simba.. game is up what 10 players? NS2 as much as I have loved it has been dead as fuck for a long time. It hasn't been on the top 100 played in a long ass time. Anything under 1000 players worldwide is dead. Stop fooling yourselves, pray for ns3. Sooner we do that the sooner NS3 may come :D (here's to hoping)

narf says

Simba says

TLDR

Guy who doesn't play gathers says gathers are toxic.

Guys who play gathers discredit guy who doesn't play gather's claims.

Guy who doesn't play gathers says gathers are dying.

Gathers population is up 300% this last month.

Come on Simba.. game is up what 10 players? NS2 as much as I have loved it has been dead as fuck for a long time. It hasn't been on the top 100 played in a long ass time. Anything under 1000 players worldwide is dead. Stop fooling yourselves, pray for ns3. Sooner we do that the sooner NS3 may come :D (here's to hoping)

To you it might seem silly to try and keep ns2 alive. If people like the game then why not try and keep it going by doing what they can and not just giving up like "ok yeah this game is dead bleh bleh meh lets just sit around and hope it completely dies asap"

If you think like this then fine but your attitude is not appreciated since we already know you personally think the game died 3 years ago.

narf says

Simba says

TLDR

Guy who doesn't play gathers says gathers are toxic.

Guys who play gathers discredit guy who doesn't play gather's claims.

Guy who doesn't play gathers says gathers are dying.

Gathers population is up 300% this last month.

Come on Simba.. game is up what 10 players? NS2 as much as I have loved it has been dead as fuck for a long time. It hasn't been on the top 100 played in a long ass time. Anything under 1000 players worldwide is dead. Stop fooling yourselves, pray for ns3. Sooner we do that the sooner NS3 may come :D (here's to hoping)

Seriously, the amount of times I see people say that is ridiculous.

You do realize that if you and all of those people actually played the game instead of saying "its dead" the game wouldn't appear dead to you, because a lot more people would be playing regularly.

Your vision of NS2 being dead is what is making NS2 so difficult to keep alive and progressing... the term "dead game" is toxic to the potential growth any game has, "dead game" is to a pay for game the same as "P2W" or "hackers everywhere" is to a F2P game... it instantly puts people off the idea of trying it and the idea spreads, even if it is untrue.

Two cents, a couple things from yesterday.

If youre not going to be a leader (make calls) at least listen.

There was a comm one match, and then a field comm another, that was making simple calls such as "secure south" and we had 3 guys on north side. This went on for a couple minutes even after repeated calls. We got shit on.

If someone is making calls theres a good chance theyre seeing something you dont no matter how often you use your map. On this note, use your map when someone does make a call because you dont need 4 aliens crushing one marine in Y junction thus losing your position on the map which may be C12/Neck/Dome area in this case. Trust but verify.

Why the hell do people not egg in vents, etc? Often you can be misted there, one of my favorites is under nano. Onos is understandable.

Want to throw this out to Schu... STOP YELLING! You make some good calls but I cant even understand you half the time. "CALTECH!! *incoherent yelling, etc*!!!!!" I can understand Mega better than you.

There has a been a large influx of players lately which is great but at the same time there have been some players that have less than 100 hours. If you understand how the game works, great, but if you cant win a single engagement and end up 4-32 you may want to consider moving to a more "friendly" environment for a bit.

CalTech says

Two cents, a couple things from yesterday.

If youre not going to be a leader (make calls) at least listen.

There was a comm one match, and then a field comm another, that was making simple calls such as "secure south" and we had 3 guys on north side. This went on for a couple minutes even after repeated calls. We got shit on.

If someone is making calls theres a good chance theyre seeing something you dont no matter how often you use your map. On this note, use your map when someone does make a call because you dont need 4 aliens crushing one marine in Y junction thus losing your position on the map which may be C12/Neck/Dome area in this case. Trust but verify.

Why the hell do people not egg in vents, etc? Often you can be misted there, one of my favorites is under nano. Onos is understandable.

Want to throw this out to Schu... STOP YELLING! You make some good calls but I cant even understand you half the time. "CALTECH!! *incoherent yelling, etc*!!!!!" I can understand Mega better than you.

There has a been a large influx of players lately which is great but at the same time there have been some players that have less than 100 hours. If you understand how the game works, great, but if you cant win a single engagement and end up 4-32 you may want to consider moving to a more "friendly" environment for a bit.

schu shouting?

It's a pretty simple solution to this whole "Casual" vs "Try-hard" argument.

Step 1) Look at the people currently signed up for the gather.
Step 2) Evaluate whether it will be too casual or too tryhard.
Step 3) If you don't think you will enjoy playing this particular gather, don't sign up.
Step 4) ????????
Step 5) Profit.

Also I haven't read through most of this thread because its all pretty redundant, but for those of you saying that rookies or new players wont have a good time playing, you shouldn't make those judgement without participating. There have been several new players in gathers recently and generally if they express that they are new, people don't judge them harshly. From my experiences with new players, people try as best as they can to teach them what to do without overreacting to mistakes. I've seen people with as little at 20 hours playing in Gathers and afterwards saying "Thanks for the good games and help."