Spring says

the main reason we got simple on the team was to prove his not legitness

?

Spring you sound a bit salty tbh.

In my opinion the only right thing to do would be to give the win to chams, since simple's play at that very point (for example) is really fucking suspicious.... if you say he had a brain, that he may have just made some clever plays, why would he have gone repairs in the first place? 2 marines on that side and he RANDOMLY decides to go repairs - turns around and finds the gorge...

And even worse - you claim you suspected his cheats and only recruited him to prove it. The fuck?
And on top of that - even if this had been the case - you deploy him in the finals? :D
And now you're salty :(

Spring says

tyrer1246 says

Spring says

ADHD says

Golden says

Why has the Season 7 Div 1 Finals not changed to Lucky Chams in the Hall of Fame?

Theres no doubt that his cheating had a huge outcome in multiple games in the finals. We would probably have easily taken rounds and not had a tie breaker.

I have no problem with giving chams the win, but you have zero(0) proof of him cheating during the finals, and your salt won't help turning it your way.

Basic logic spring, if simple could play at DIY's level without cheats then he wouldn't have made them. If he only recently made them after the game, he would of appealed to the admins with it, seeking a more lenient punishment. Eissfeldt did it with wall hacking, to catch a wall hacker.

They don't have to prove he cheated in the match. When evilbot was found to be cheating, all match results were overturned without proof for every single match. Simple has been proven to be cheating and his matches should be overturned!

At the very least, a rematch between DIY and lucky chams should be done. If such a match cannot be done then the win should be given to lucky chams, reward the players that competed legit not those that had a cheater.

Read message above, rules state "current season". Evilbot's match results were overturned because it was the CURRENT season. We're talking about last season.

If you're going to go by logic rather than proof, then all I can, and want to say, is "lol".

Besides, the main reason we got simple on the team was to prove his not legitness because we (or atleast, I) were/was 100% sure he was using something external. We told people to keep an eye on him, and noone did. You can blame whoever is supposed to take care of that, not the team.

If Chams had an issue with it during the finals, because it's not like they didn't know about it, they could've told their concerns to us, or the ensl, and got someone to spec the game for them. Why won't anyone deal with the issues at hand rather than deal with them months later..

I'll repeat myself Spring, the rules state that if someone in a season is found to be cheating even if 7/8 matches for the season are done they are, ALL OVERTURNED. The rules agree with my logic of overturning previous matches with just the proof of current cheating with no prior cheating proof needed. To lol at my logic saying i need prior cheating proof when the rule you quote follows the logic during season of not needing prior proof only current is dumb.

You say i don't have proof but you just gave me it when you said that DIY, knew he was cheating 100%. The same suspicious behaviour that he exhibited convincing you he cheated, was later given form as him cheating.

Of course I believe DIY were the white knights in all this just trying to get a cheater banned. But he only happens to be banned, after you win the season.

By the way, this is what admins are for, changing unfair rules! If the admins wanted to they could change this rule and give the win to lucky chams, but they won't.

IF:
1) Simple had access to cheats before or after the match (he did)
2) Simple demonstrated the propensity to use the cheats (he did)

Then it is reasonable to assume that he used them in the DIY vs Chams match. The statement "I cheated before and I cheated after, but I didn't cheat during the match" just does not pass the smell test.

It is unfair to DIY to be disqualified from the s7 finals, but it is even more unfair to Chams and the community in general to allow the win to stand. One cheater taints the entire win and it should be forfeit. You guys should be mad at Simple, not defending his collective 'victory'.

I'll make it really simple for you. pun intended.

provide proof that he cheated during the finals.

thx.

Lambo says

I'll make it really simple for you. pun intended.

provide proof that he cheated during the finals.

thx.

They already proved he was cheating for months. If he's cheating to be better than he actually is, why would he not use the cheats in the most meaningful and difficult match of his career?


I can't believe you're defending a cheater.

edit: sorry, here's the proof: http://www.ensl.org/topics/1591?page=1

Lambo says

I'll make it really simple for you. pun intended.

provide proof that he cheated during the finals.

thx.

Translation: Prove a cheater, you've proven was cheating, was cheating!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eBPqksG9nbA

Can we get a name change for Do it yourself in the hall of fame to Do it, Simple!

no, that's proof he was cheating in a scrim a couple of days ago.
provide said finals proof and we'll evaluate.

otherwise you're not helping your cause.

Lambo says

no, that's proof he was cheating in a scrim a couple of days ago.
provide said finals proof and we'll evaluate.

otherwise you're not helping your cause.

Thats where it was proven that he cheats, but People assumed it Long before.
So if there is a very high probability that he cheated for a Long time, then ist just Logical to assume he would cheat in the most important match of the Season.

So as an admin you basically say: "Even though it is very likely that simple cheated in the final game the results should not be changed because no one has 100% proof and the rules say xy" which is just mind boggling, throws a good light on the ns2 community when cheaters are defended.

Yes ist annoying for the winning Team to have to repeat the match, but tbh they should blame simple.

What harm would there be in repeating the final game without simple? None except there would be a Chance d/y might lose...

Also wtf does that mean d/y only let simple join because they wanted to proof that he cheated. If you guys were 100% sure why would you let him Play in the final .. or why would you even let him join the Team? xD makes Zero sense

Spring says

the main reason we got simple on the team was to prove his not legitness

Wait.... are you serious ? I had very little respect for d/y since the "you guys don't have a competitive spirit" when other teams didn't want to play in the same div as you out of boredom (team who disband after btw).
And now you are telling everyone that you had huge suspicion over him but still took him in your team ? And it's even more than that, it was the main reason."Guys let's play with hackers a whole season to prove they have cheats" ... So i guess i was right, accuracy was/is your number one priority, even more than anti-hack. Great mentatility, great "competitive spirit".

Every team who played HBZ at the time knew he was cheating, 45% in every pcw was obvious. But he learnt to be more sneaky with it after that. So it's hard to stay calm when Lambo says "Simple was caught cheating during a scrim a couple of days ago, where enough proof was gathered to bust him & deal with it. There is no proof of him cheating during the finals in Season 7". Go say this to all the team who played against him at that time. It just coroborate what i said earlier, as long as you were cheating in lower div no one gave a shit.

Anyway, with what Spring said there is no way D/Y can keep any title while they were playing with Simple. In the end it's just symbolic and it will never repare all the useless games against him and all the season he fucked up.

.

We had a cheater that only use a WH to catch a wallhacker, a cheater that tried cheats one time but didnt play better with them and one, well, a russian.

So a cheater that cheated before and after a match need a proof now that he uses the cheat during a important one?
WTF is this?
In every other game a cheater will be punished livetime with name and shame and a permanent ban.
Only in NS2 you hear stuff like "hey, its a nice guy. And this community so small. And we all love each other. He cheatet only one time, be cool. everything is fine"
Thats BULLSHIT.
So you guys really believe these "I was not cheating. My dog use the aimbot after i left the house" storys?

But i must say, if the rules are:
"All games of a current season" you cannot forfeit a game of the last season.
But to say after the season "Hey, he was only in our team to prove he uses external stuff" is indeed a slap in the face for all within the division.
If this was really the case, D/Y are maybe the winner defined by the rules. But can they be proud of it?
Dont think so. Especial cause they are soooo competitive.

I have a "simple" solution to this.

Rather than bitching and moaning, just repeat the match... but with specific rules.

1. Each team must field EXACTLY the same team they fielded originally... no mercs allowed.
2. "If" one team is unable to field 6 players, they are not able to play and therefore forfeit the match, unless they are willing to play with X amount of players missing.
3. Any player that is currently banned would for obvious reasons, be unable to participate in said match.

Bring on the season 7 finals!

Kash says

I have a "simple" solution to this.

Rather than bitching and moaning, just repeat the match... but with specific rules.

1. Each team must field EXACTLY the same team they fielded originally... no mercs allowed.
2. "If" one team is unable to field 6 players, they are not able to play and therefore forfeit the match, unless they are willing to play with X amount of players missing.
3. Any player that is currently banned would for obvious reasons, but unable to participate in said match.

Bring on the season 7 finals!

Not gonna happen, diy is mostly broken up and you don't want to field simple again, do you? :p

Yaluzan says

Kash says

I have a "simple" solution to this.

Rather than bitching and moaning, just repeat the match... but with specific rules.

1. Each team must field EXACTLY the same team they fielded originally... no mercs allowed.
2. "If" one team is unable to field 6 players, they are not able to play and therefore forfeit the match, unless they are willing to play with X amount of players missing.
3. Any player that is currently banned would for obvious reasons, be unable to participate in said match.

Bring on the season 7 finals!

Not gonna happen, diy is mostly broken up and you don't want to field simple again, do you? :p

May want to re-read rule 3 there bud... simple is banned, therefore he wouldn't be allowed to participate :P

Alright so we have contacted Simple to clarify some more about his tools and when he used them.
Due to a CDT patch in the past(I believe last summer?) his tools broke. "time with diy: no, hack was broken for some time due to a cdt patch" He also said he wasn't able to use them in the finals in any way.
Now you ask "Then how could he play on the same level as diy without cheats, isn't that why he made them?" People improve. He used to be on PFG that won div 4 back in season 4, played for HBZ in div 5-6 that were div 2 and div 1 respectively. And then he joined diy where he played in season 7.

Yes we do have to take this with a grain of salt, but its the only thing regarding his time in diy.

Bullshit. He is covering for his buddies because they're facing the consequences of his actions.

He claims a CDT patch in the summer (so ~6 months ago) broke his tools. Yet he was just recently caught using those tools to cheat in a gather/scrim?

Are you really going to ask the very trustworthy cheater when he did and did not cheat? lol...

Now this makes no sense anymore:

"We were recently introduced to a new way of detecting illegal game modifications and we were able to ascertain with a high degree of certainty that Simple had modified his game files while bypassing NS2’s detection mechanisms."

Where is the dog?

Here's the rules from http://www.ensl.org/articles/913

9. Cheating
(a) Cheating in any form is considered a violation of the rules and will result in an immediate punishment to be determined by the NSL.
(b) Cheating is considered any manipulation of server configurations, client configurations, models, skins, weapons, graphics settings, or sounds to gain an unfair advantage in game. This can also include, but is not limited to, the use of any third party program not deemed legal by the NSL.
(c) It is illegal to intentionally utilize any game exploits including any exploits that are not explicitly covered in the rules. The NSL staff have discretion to determine the intention and extent of any exploit used in game. Players found intentionally utilizing game exploits to gain an unfair advantage over their opponents may face suspension or forfeits of rounds.
(d) It is illegal to use a map exploit in an attempt to gain an unfair advantage that was not in the original intent of the game or mapmaker. Players found in violation of these rules will be penalized at the discretion of the NSL staff.
(e) In the event that a player or team is found in violation of any rule, unless otherwise noted by the specific rule or term violated, the member or team in question may be warned, suspended, or immediately disqualified from any or all NSL events.
(f) Any team found with a cheating player during season will have any matches the player in question participated in forfeited. Any team found with a cheating player during any playoff or tournament will be immediately disqualified and removed from the event.

9.f. pretty much covers it. The only question is whether you believe Simple was cheating or not. IMO, you'd have to be pretty naive (or a DIY player) to think Simple was cheating before and after but not during his time with DIY.

Not naive, competitive.
Only the win counts.

Yaluzan says

Alright so we have contacted Simple to clarify some more about his tools and when he used them.
Due to a CDT patch in the past(I believe last summer?) his tools broke. "time with diy: no, hack was broken for some time due to a cdt patch" He also said he wasn't able to use them in the finals in any way.
Now you ask "Then how could he play on the same level as diy without cheats, isn't that why he made them?" People improve. He used to be on PFG that won div 4 back in season 4, played for HBZ in div 5-6 that were div 2 and div 1 respectively. And then he joined diy where he played in season 7.

Yes we do have to take this with a grain of salt, but its the only thing regarding his time in diy.

No offense asking him and still believing in his honesty is nice and all but he cant really be trusted now. :|
Once you fuck up its done.

Why are there even People arguing in favor of simple? Repeating one match cant be that hard and it would Show that cheaters / cheating isnt tolerated and has consequences. Cant believe that has to be said.

edit: If I would win with a cheater in my Team the win would feel tainted und undeserved. Id not refer to any rules and try to find a loophole, id just replay it with another teammember or a merc..
There is no Price for winning a Season, so why wouldnt you?

GORGEous says

Bullshit. He is covering for his buddies because they're facing the consequences of his actions.

He claims a CDT patch in the summer (so ~6 months ago) broke his tools. Yet he was just recently caught using those tools to cheat in a gather/scrim?

Are you really going to ask the very trustworthy cheater when he did and did not cheat? lol...

I quote my post "for some time" he fixed it in December.

Nightsy says

Yaluzan says

Alright so we have contacted Simple to clarify some more about his tools and when he used them.
Due to a CDT patch in the past(I believe last summer?) his tools broke. "time with diy: no, hack was broken for some time due to a cdt patch" He also said he wasn't able to use them in the finals in any way.
Now you ask "Then how could he play on the same level as diy without cheats, isn't that why he made them?" People improve. He used to be on PFG that won div 4 back in season 4, played for HBZ in div 5-6 that were div 2 and div 1 respectively. And then he joined diy where he played in season 7.

Yes we do have to take this with a grain of salt, but its the only thing regarding his time in diy.

No offense asking him and still believing in his honesty is nice and all but he cant really be trusted now. :|
Once you fuck up its done.

Why are there even People arguing in favor of simple? Repeating one match cant be that hard and it would Show that cheaters / cheating isnt tolerated and has consequences. Cant believe that has to be said.

edit: If I would win with a cheater in my Team the win would feel tainted und undeserved. Id not refer to any rules and try to find a loophole, id just replay it with another teammember or a merc..
There is no Price for winning a Season, so why wouldnt you?

Repeating a match can be very difficult if one of the teams has split up.

Anyways we are discussing this.

there's no proof he cheated in HBZ, just suspicion
there's no proof he cheated in diy, just suspicion
there's no proof he cheated in Season 7 finals, just suspicion
there's proof he cheated in the scrims the other day.

I don't know why this is so difficult for you to understand.

this keeps getting better and better

Yaluzan says

Alright so we have contacted Simple to clarify some more about his tools and when he used them.
Due to a CDT patch in the past(I believe last summer?) his tools broke. "time with diy: no, hack was broken for some time due to a cdt patch" He also said he wasn't able to use them in the finals in any way.

The bullshit is real

Why does turning over the finals even require a discussion? I would have disputed simple 100% if it would have done anything, no demo system, no first person recordings, no way to gather evidence of any sort. I talked to admins multiple times about having someone spectate him and noone could get an admin to spectate him in the finals.

Trust a cheaters word because he admitted to cheating when confronted with incontrovertible proof, good policy.

9.f. pretty much covers it. The only question is whether you believe Simple was cheating or not. IMO, you'd have to be pretty naive (or a DIY player) to think Simple was cheating before and after but not during his time with DIY.

I created d/y with my fav field player to play with at the moment (Spring), so you could say we are the leaders, we both asked for at least a NC or a loss if it's ruled like that.

Can we just remember simple was supposed to be under the watch of admins for season 7 and maybe even season 6?
The admins failed to do anything at all regarding it until people not on admin team provided video evidence to them to actually have this discussion and result in a ban.

Lambo says

there's no proof he cheated in HBZ, just suspicion
there's no proof he cheated in diy, just suspicion
there's no proof he cheated in Season 7 finals, just suspicion
there's proof he cheated in the scrims the other day.

I don't know why this is so difficult for you to understand.

So, we know he admitted to cheating a few days ago. We also know his rise in "skill Level" was noticeable for a long time now with accuracies of 30%+, sometimes Close to 40% and I remember at least two Matches where his lerk had 70%, not to mention all the suspicious Plays he made ...

To say he did cheat in the finals is an assumption.
To say he did not cheat in the finals is also an assumption.

Which one is more reasonable given what we already know?