Balance on Jambi?

Mephilles
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30 June 2017 - 09:11 CEST
#1
So after I have taken a look at the map balances for last season (started at 24th March 2017) I have noticed that the map who performed worst balance wise was ns2_jambi. Appearently Jambi has an alien winrate of 70%.

So basically I just want to ask 1 simple question:
Do you guys want me to try to balance the map more after season 11 is done or do you want the map to stay the way it is and I will just continue on maintaining it (fixing bugs and stuff)?

https://www.ensl.org/topics/1823?page=1#post_24016
this is the data I am referring to btw
Keats
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1 July 2017 - 01:17 CEST
#2
if you're going to do experiments make sure you use a version control system or frequent backups or a new mod id. if you fuck up and have to wait for xtc to be available to publish a fix people will not be pleased
Mephilles
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1 July 2017 - 10:35 CEST
#3
It is possible to put 2 map files into the same mod. One that would have balance changes and the original. That way server ops would not need to include a new mod to the server but maybe update the map cycle so people can vote for it
Spring
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1 July 2017 - 13:07 CEST
#4
Instead of just blindly looking at win % for both sides, you also need to know what happened in those games. I, for one, am 90% sure that the map snowballs out of control fast. Bad starts for marines usually end up in them losing due to not having enough pressure and aliens being able to secure a high impact tunnel. On the flip side if marines play well in the first few minutes and cap/deny alien naturals the aliens are screwed. I don't know why you would want to balance a map around players who are unable to pressure hard enough due to their own personal skill being lackluster, but go for it.

Jambi is one of the last few maps in the pool where an early game actually counts, unlike e.g ns2_veil where you could hold 2 hive locations and double but you'll still get rekt by arcs. Or ns2_tram where you'll hold 5 rt's as aliens but still be unable to have an impact in the midgame when u are fighting against w2a2 shotguns.

As an extra point just make arcs able to hit hives from further away and marine win % will boost.
Deck
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1 July 2017 - 16:30 CEST
#5
Quality of the round is more important than win/loss ratio. Sure they are both nice to have.

I think a good stat would be to look at, if this can be done, is how long each side holds a certain number of rt's. Let's say all marine wins are when they are holding 7 rt's on a map for long periods of time. That means the map might be way too easy to hold lanes, and creates a dominating atmosphere which leads to not fun rounds. So I think it would be interesting to see how long a team held a certain amount of rt's in a round, and what the result of that round was. Or what the max rt's held by each team in a round for was for how long. Then I think you can start to think about way's to change how the rounds play out on a map. If the stats show you something.

The quality of the hive fights...I would assume this would be more subjective. You have to make sure the arc spots work well for both sides. You could look at marines pushes on certain hive rooms, and see the success rate. I can't think of an easy way to get that data. The rt's held in a round is not subjective, and could give you some info.
Spring
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1 July 2017 - 22:21 CEST
#6
My arc remark was very satirical, however, if we take different maps under discussion, many of them have either an rt or a hive to shoot at with arcs. In Jambi you can not shoot at anything in a hive, unless its pve. If you can shoot a hive then the arcs are already too exposed to bile. I would say descent falls into the same category on this win % post, the only exception I would see is biodome, however biodome has easy laning.

But im not a good map designer, so take what I say with a grain of salt
Golden
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2 July 2017 - 01:03 CEST
#7
Jambi is fine
Mephilles
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2 July 2017 - 11:28 CEST
#8
okay then the only thing I will do on jambi is fixing stuck spots, holes and clearing up the commander overview to make medding easier
Deck
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2 July 2017 - 21:34 CEST
#9

Mephilles says

okay then the only thing I will do on jambi is fixing stuck spots, holes and clearing up the commander overview to make medding easier




Sounds good. I doubt many people will have an issue with that.
Knox
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26 October 2019 - 04:39 CEST
#10
Can we fix the tunnel drop locations
e.g. can't drop tunnels on many places waste side of the map
pSyk
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26 October 2019 - 13:33 CEST
#11
It looks like the tunnel drop issues are related to the low ceilings in those areas in Waste.
You can't drop the tunnel, because Onos might get stuck in the ceiling coming out of it.
The ceiling is extremely low and that's not an easy fix at all. Would require increasing the height of the ceiling and all props connected to it or lowering the floor.
Knox
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29 October 2019 - 02:45 CET
#12
ty for feedback

and ty mal for putting it in jambi_redux!
turtsmcgurts
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29 October 2019 - 07:09 CET
#13
how accurate is the onos-size check that the game uses? i don't think i've ever heard of an onos getting stuck over the years of gorge tunnels in waste. or really anywhere tbh
pSyk
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29 October 2019 - 10:12 CET
#14
Yes, that's surprising me aswell.
It should work, considering that the Gorge Tunnels also worked.
The volume used for the tunnel check for commander drops is probably slightly too generous.
turtsmcgurts
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29 October 2019 - 16:19 CET
#15
perhaps having a coder look into that would be more time efficient than having to change ceilings in various rooms and dealing with whatever balance changes come with that.
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