CompMod Iteration 4

rantology
2659
The Boys
Contributors
Balance-Team
Posts
124
Location
United States of America
Joined
28 March 2012
2 March 2015 - 19:31 CET
mst3kld says
What will be done with Exos? They are packing so much firepower right now at 35 res. We have seen Exos plow down 3-4 onos in 3 seconds and melt a hive. Then when you go to force a beacon to be able to Solo the exo there is an Exo in base on top of the chair that you just cant get to. They need to be nerfed in some way.


Like said before there's opinions on both sides of the fence atm. The examples in your post sound like just a little bit of an exaggeration though..
loMe
6335
Alski Syndrome
Posts
183
Location
United States of America
Joined
29 June 2014
2 March 2015 - 20:27 CET
I believe that example he's talking about was from a PCW between his team and Get Spit On/Nanobytes. I remember spec-ing it. They rushed 4 onos's to hub on tram to crush the gate vs 2 split Exos and maybe an HMG marine + I think a late LMG marine and lost the engagement. Marines managed to even keep one of their Exos up (or at least rebuy) if I remember correctly. 4 Onos's dead to 2 Exos + HMG :/ GGs afterwards.
Golden
1212
Snoofed
Posts
101
Location
United States of America
Joined
28 October 2006
2 March 2015 - 21:36 CET
loMe says
I believe that example he's talking about was from a PCW between his team and Get Spit On/Nanobytes. I remember spec-ing it. They rushed 4 onos's to hub on tram to crush the gate vs 2 split Exos and maybe an HMG marine + I think a late LMG marine and lost the engagement. Marines managed to even keep one of their Exos up (or at least rebuy) if I remember correctly. 4 Onos's dead to 2 Exos + HMG :/ GGs afterwards.


Sounds like you shouldn't rush into hub vs two exos.
Wob
Noavatar
B L I N K
Posts
296
Location
United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland
Joined
18 January 2013
2 March 2015 - 22:24 CET
Yeah it's ridiculous to assume that 4 onos can run into any room in the game (Because hub is one of the most marine friendly rooms) and win. That would mean that aliens are too OP, not that exos are too OP because you lost.
loMe
6335
Alski Syndrome
Posts
183
Location
United States of America
Joined
29 June 2014
3 March 2015 - 00:06 CET
I lol'd
mst3kld
3996
Saltier Skulks
Admins
League Admin
Posts
10
Location
United States of America
Joined
22 November 2012
3 March 2015 - 06:15 CET
What is the time to kill an onos with an exo vs shotty vs hmg vs lgm when you factor in reload? It takes a whole team to take down an exo and you need to force the beacon to get him alone. Exos only cost 15 more than a shotty or HMG. They are so good and so cheap.
Mephilles
5803
ELOgain
Modder
ns2_docking2
Posts
331
Location
Germany
Joined
29 September 2013
19 March 2015 - 13:12 CET
when a marine drops a grenade and you pick it up you generally have no idea which grenade that is. I guess you could see at the symbol but you don't rly look at that small symbol at the bottom. Is there a way to make that better visible?
Wob
Noavatar
B L I N K
Posts
296
Location
United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland
Joined
18 January 2013
30 April 2015 - 13:27 CEST
Is NS2 balanced yet?
BauerJankins
5841
nazi hunter izO
Posts
368
Location
Paderborn, Germany
Joined
20 October 2013
30 April 2015 - 21:56 CEST
Stop the bm wob, these people are doing their best to improve the game!

Jeeeeeeeeeeez all this bm lately, I can't figure where it's coming from
http://i.imgur.com/hr1ud2u.png
Mega
1942
pubstars
Posts
225
Location
Germany
Joined
28 September 2009
1 May 2015 - 16:07 CEST
Mega_noComm says
[Flamethrowers]
Even if this doubled firerate incresment was a bug or forgotten to remove it showed the direction the flamer should take like i said:
Mega_noComm says

FlameThrowers
i cant think of a Good easy solution to be honest the basic question is:
When is a often occuring situation where a Marine ever would prefer his Flamethrower instead of a SG/HMG/LMG/GL ?
I can only think of serisly buffing Flamer damage to make it something inbetween LMG-HMG and probly no secondary wepon.


Give the Flamer a Damage reduction of 10-25% but keep this doubled firerate.
Or the other way around remove doubled firerate but buff damage like 30%.
(so he dosnt burn lerks and skulks instantly but still can defend himself vs Aliens)

He should only disable energy/adrenline regeneration/burning half as much as he does now and
Change the TRES cost to 15
Change the PRES cost to 15


Then you got a purpose for the Flamer that is pretty fitting and not too diffrent from vanillia game
and can deal with PVE+cysts, Bilebomb, Umbra pretty good.
so it will make sense to have 1 in your 2-3 Marine Squads cause he can still defend himself and kill stuff.




[FADE STAB]
Im sad you didnt even consider trying to do anything with [FADE Stab] but its not too late yet

Mega_noComm says

Then Fade Stab:
There must be a reason to leave it as a Hive 3 Tech.
There are multiple possiblitys:
1) Replace it with Focus from the NS1 mod that is a 2 Swipe kill abtility but the attack rate is slower.
2) Upgrade the Regular Swipe somehow like with Metabolize and adv. Meta.
3) Let it automatical Trigger when you Pressed Mouse1 while you where still in the Blink
but make fast like 0,5 second and hit, not this 1-2 second delay where he charges up.
(its a freaking Hive 3 tech it suppose to be strong)


I would say go for Possiblity 3 make it useable and FAST instantly hit after blink (like no delay but energy cost).
(So it will be useable like it was b4 with Shadow step+Stab where you could shadowstep and instantly hit/Stab from the shadow step.)



I might appear stubborn in repeating myself.
but this should be tryed...


(BTW I DIDNT COVER THE MOST IMPORTANT POINT [[[EXOS]]]
cause they are still in a state where they need balanceing but to be honest idk how)
Mephilles
5803
ELOgain
Modder
ns2_docking2
Posts
331
Location
Germany
Joined
29 September 2013
1 May 2015 - 17:35 CEST
I think if you use exos correctly they are strong already
BauerJankins
5841
nazi hunter izO
Posts
368
Location
Paderborn, Germany
Joined
20 October 2013
1 May 2015 - 23:50 CEST
That's why they need to be balanced :P
They can be way TOO strong IF used correctly...
http://i.imgur.com/hr1ud2u.png
Wob
Noavatar
B L I N K
Posts
296
Location
United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland
Joined
18 January 2013
2 May 2015 - 18:06 CEST
BauerJankins says
That's why they need to be balanced :P
They can be way TOO strong IF used correctly...


Well not really because there are other implications like what you are choosing NOT to get if you go exos and how exos impact the field like not being able to go through PGs or beacon (i cant remember if one or both of those changed)
rantology
2659
The Boys
Contributors
Balance-Team
Posts
124
Location
United States of America
Joined
28 March 2012
2 May 2015 - 18:22 CEST
Neither, they cannot gate nor beacon. The only thing currently different about exos in cmod is their p-res and t-res costs. (and actually I think we reverted that damage buff they received in vanilla)
loMe
6335
Alski Syndrome
Posts
183
Location
United States of America
Joined
29 June 2014
2 May 2015 - 19:57 CEST
rantology says
Neither, they cannot gate nor beacon. The only thing currently different about exos in cmod is their p-res and t-res costs. (and actually I think we reverted that damage buff they received in vanilla)

Also in cmod you don't need to research double weaps like you do in vanilla.
simple
5870
Posts
131
Location
Germany
Joined
16 November 2013
11 May 2015 - 18:05 CEST
I want something like the cannon in ns2 combat / railgun in quake 3.
infamous
6359
Champions of Div1
Posts
43
Location
Czechia
Joined
11 July 2014
10 July 2015 - 05:17 CEST
Why not just remove exos? They feel really shoehorned into the game and their damage output is ridiculous to the point of being broken. Nerf their damage though and there's no reason to buy them. Not sure what they're still doing in comp mod.
simple
5870
Posts
131
Location
Germany
Joined
16 November 2013
10 July 2015 - 09:59 CEST
I'm in favor of diversity , so don't remove anything, just add new things!
swalk
2129
Xeon
Posts
908
Location
Copenhagen, Denmark
Joined
9 May 2010
10 July 2015 - 19:21 CEST
infamous says
Why not just remove exos? They feel really shoehorned into the game and their damage output is ridiculous to the point of being broken. Nerf their damage though and there's no reason to buy them. Not sure what they're still doing in comp mod.

To be fair, an onos can solo an exo if he catches him around a corner. But that fight can go both ways and the onos have to play it really well with his HP and gores, else he dies.

I think the problem lies in that the exo is too powerful against the smaller lifeforms.

One way to make the exo worse against the smaller lifeforms, is to make the spread of bullets big enough that you would automaticly miss some of your bullets even if you aim directly at the smaller lifeforms(at a certain distance).

The exo already has a really good damage output against both lifeforms and structures, which I think they are great utilities for. The extra spread shouldn't deter their damage output much at medium range, only at longer ranges with smaller targets. So you would still have the same firepower against hives, onos and other aliens that get too close to you, but you won't be able to kill everything that comes into your sight for a brief moment at any distance. I'm thinking a spread somewhat close to that of the shotgun or larger. Would still be powerful, but not sniping friendly and more fit for the cost.
http://www.youtube.com/user/swalken/videos
Sardine
5431
California Burrito
Posts
68
Location
British Indian Ocean Territory
Joined
1 May 2013
18 July 2015 - 13:28 CEST
An automatic shotgun, what could go wrong?
simple
5870
Posts
131
Location
Germany
Joined
16 November 2013
18 July 2015 - 14:51 CEST
AA12, sounds good!
loMe
6335
Alski Syndrome
Posts
183
Location
United States of America
Joined
29 June 2014
31 July 2015 - 20:10 CEST
I wanted to hear what people thought about giving Fades a little more buff. In my opinion Fades are a little broken atm. They're a little too squishy. They are easy as hell to 1v1 with shotguns and meds. You can land 4 swipes in a row against W2/A2 and be outmedded to death. I honestly feel like having celerity is much better than carapace for survivability. Playing against good players, you have to play so cautious its not even fun. Two shotgun meatshots and your practically dead, so you end up going in for a swipe and get meatshotted and run away to heal. God forbid, you blink through a room with two shotgunners that meatshot you and your almost certainly instakilled.

The reason I bring this up is because I was watching some old comp matches last night and Fades were sooo much more effective on field. They were quicker with shadow step and ground movement speed, they could do structure damage, and just seemed more fun to play (probably a little overpowered tbh). I'm not saying we need to revert back or make dramatic changes, but I think there are some things we could do to improve Fades. I'm not really impressed by any NA or EU player's fading abilities atm and I think its mainly because of how ineffective on the field they feel right now.

For starters, I think increasing Fade's ground movement speed would make them a little more tougher to kill. Another thing I think that could help would be reducing the energy cost of blink, so that fades can dodge and attack more effectively, without worrying so much about using all your energy. I also privately hate that Fades can only hurt structures with no armor, because a lot of the time when Fade's come up you only have 1 Skulk on the field that can yolo on structures. Maybe we can raise structure damage on armored structures up a small amount.

EDIT: I think what these changes would do is raise the skill ceiling for Fading, giving them more maneuverability and energy to work with, while at the same time keeping it balanced for lower skill levels by not directly buffing health.

I'm just throwing out some ideas and want to have a discussion about Fades. What do you guys think?
Neoken
5295
Div2orDisband
Posts
46
Location
Bruges, Belgium
Joined
6 April 2013
31 July 2015 - 21:10 CEST
I think decreasing the energy cost for blink would be the best way to give the fade a small buff. I'm all for it.

Having said that, is this mod actually still being worked on? Something brewing for next season perhaps?
LyDDa
Noavatar
ELOgain
Posts
44
Location
Germany
Joined
1 April 2014
31 July 2015 - 21:15 CEST
I would like to see/test, remove cooldown of blink.
joshhhy
4962
Barrel O' Monkey's
Posts
67
Location
Milwaukee, Earth
Joined
25 February 2013
31 July 2015 - 21:23 CEST
Well I can tell you right now that giving fades structure damage back would not be a great option. Comp play back when the fade ball was the meta was extremely stale.

I do agree the fades are squishy right now but not to the point where I would like to see a change. I've basically been inactive for the last season aside from the occasional match but from what I have seen, fade play hasn't really changed.

The beauty and the curse of high level fade play, at least to me... was all in the teamwork. During the training period for the World Cup, rant and I kind of developed our own version of fade teamwork without really consciously thinking about it. I would typically be the fade that would go in first... landing a swipe here and there while tanking bullets, where rant would work on swiping and killing the marines shooting at me. Since Rant had a higher swipe accuracy than I did, it worked out well this way.

As far as the 1v1 situations go, it comes down accuracy and individual choices. Fades will typically back off after taking one full meatshot. If you do choose to stay after losing most of your armor... you have to be confident enough to know every swipe needs to land. If you miss after making that choice, you will probably die. Typically the fade will not immediately solo a single shotgunner with meds. Most of the time, the fade will land a swipe or two, retreat and heal with regain, and re-engage. Some fade players have learned a quick swipe pattern by bouncing back and forth quickly around a marine... but you can still eat mqatshots. It's probably the best technique for solo engagements I have seen. Tap is one of the better fades I have seen that like this approach.

tl;dr I don't see any problems atm.
RolliePollie
Noavatar
Pell-Mell
Posts
24
Location
United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland
Joined
4 May 2014
31 July 2015 - 21:57 CEST
Please no alien buffs, fades are fine, like Joshhhy said if you rely on teamwork and focus the same marine you have no problems. The amount of alien win's in competitive is ridiculous, in division 3 and 4 getting a marine win is almost unheard off when facing teams of equal skill. In division 2 it is possible to get marine win's but if you lose your alien round you feel like you have fucked up. Even in division 1 aliens wins seem to be more common (d/y vs chams was mainly alien wins apart from one round).

Also increasing the fade movement speed without increasing the speed in vanilla will make it even harder for pub players to make the jump to competitive, as for them fades will now have completely different movement to what they are used too.
lebra
4566
REFORMED
Posts
141
Location
no., Iceland
Joined
17 January 2013
31 July 2015 - 22:08 CEST
only thing I support is buffing their movement speed & a tiny health increase, I don't want another fade ball.
Not talking huge differences, fades walk almost slower than arcs.
Mephilles
5803
ELOgain
Modder
ns2_docking2
Posts
331
Location
Germany
Joined
29 September 2013
1 August 2015 - 02:17 CEST
can't you just replace stab with shadowstep and ofcourse bring shadowstep to a biomass level where fades can actually use it
Alite
6355
Posts
61
Location
Canada
Joined
10 July 2014
1 August 2015 - 07:15 CEST
I do like the idea of bringing back shadowstep, it could help fades become more effective by using a different playstyle
Prommah
4926
The Expendables
Posts
6
Location
United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland
Joined
22 February 2013
1 August 2015 - 07:26 CEST
Pretty much agree with RolliePollie. Yes, fades are relatively squishy, but there are ways to play around that. Sure I absolutely LOVED some of the previous iterations of their movement (and miss them every day), and the better structure damage, but it was all OP as fuck. The only-alien-wins situation in the lower divs really doesn't need to be made worse.

That being said though, some small relatively meaningless "quality of life" change would be nice. At first I was thinking walk speed with slow accel to still punish you for screwing up your bouncing, but it'd have to be limited to just.. be meaningless if you turned at all, to not buff close combat dodging, so that'd be pointless. I don't know.. Nothing comes to mind which would be reasonable, useful, and not buff them in combat. Also an actually useful final ability would be interesting, but something useful which doesn't meaningfully disrupt the balance seems unlikely.
New Reply