Reduce stab biomass level to 3 or 4 and maybe decrease it adrenaline spending a bit (so fade can use it to damage buildings - there are no restriction on it now). On drills we tried to use stab and that was pretty difficult but still usefull especially against LMG/HMG and marine with low armor.
Also I agree with Lambo's thoughts. Otherwise I think fade not needed in changes.\

Update: also it's better to remove fade's growl before stab - it's stupid

Prommah says

Pretty much agree with RolliePollie. Yes, fades are relatively squishy, but there are ways to play around that. Sure I absolutely LOVED some of the previous iterations of their movement (and miss them every day), and the better structure damage, but it was all OP as fuck. The only-alien-wins situation in the lower divs really doesn't need to be made worse.

That being said though, some small relatively meaningless "quality of life" change would be nice. At first I was thinking walk speed with slow accel to still punish you for screwing up your bouncing, but it'd have to be limited to just.. be meaningless if you turned at all, to not buff close combat dodging, so that'd be pointless. I don't know.. Nothing comes to mind which would be reasonable, useful, and not buff them in combat. Also an actually useful final ability would be interesting, but something useful which doesn't meaningfully disrupt the balance seems unlikely.

all this ^

Fades just can't be buffed, it would not work out for lower divs (or even higher divs lololol). Fades aren't supposed to be able to solo everything on the map, they're ok as they are right now. Being able to work in a team with your fadebuddy is part of being a good fade - so just get gud man

Buff lerks to have a build in guidance system for spikes plöx.

”They are easy as hell to 1v1 with shotguns and meds. ”

During most times of a match, aliens are faster than marines. Which also results in that aliens can mobilize to a fight quicker or ”land a swipe or two, retreat and heal with regain, and re-engage”. With a little patience the 1v1 fight don't have to be so favoured for the marine. Remember that meds also are a support for the marine from another player in the marine team. The fight looks like 1v1 but it isn't since it is dedicating 2 marine players for that fight. How would the fights be if your fade also would get support in these fights from another player on the field or by the commander?

The only thing that annoys me today (when I am playing fade) is the energy cost for blink. There are plenty of fights where the loss of energy has either had me killed or made me useless just because I can't continue the fight without energy (even though I only swiped a few times). It actually is to the point where I feel like it is ridiculous at times. That is caused by my playstyle as a fade because I like to use blink and dodge around. I do that because the fade is the fastest lifeform in the game and I like to abuse that as a strength. This makes the amount of swipes that I can do very limited though.

It could maybe be blamed upon me that I am the one using way too much energy and I should adapt, maybe I am using metabolize way too little during fights or maybe I should practice more to become more accurate with my swipes.

In all other scenarios where marines kills me or I can't continue a fight it is for reasons that definitely is me doing something wrong or marines doing something right.

tl;dr I would like energy cost for blink to be lowered but it is egotistical because it will fix a weakness in my playstyle that I have trouble with (not so sure how many other fade-players that struggle with it) and I do not know how it will affect the balance of the game.

Please dont buff fades, it wont bring anything positive to div 3 and under.

DO NOT change fade blink cost. Energy is not a problem for skilled fade with metabolize. I guarantee it.

Exos should have GL option.
Dual Grenade Launcher Exos, 35 pres pls.

Where is the ns2 sniper rifle so i can scream BOOM HEADSHOT, BOOOOM HEADSHOT.

topic: Fades are good as they are, i agree the final ability should be changed. Bring back acid rocket?

kmacg says

Exos should have GL option.
Dual Grenade Launcher Exos, 35 pres pls.

Are you joking? Minigun exos has the most huge Structure damage in the game.

what about raising lerk armor by 5 ?

The only thing I could think of as a possible change for a 3rd ability other than stab is an attack that is effective against structures. So a researchable skill that allows you to res bite and stuff. Just an idea.

Yeah, maybe. I feel that adding even more of a snowball effect to the third hive might not be great though. If you moved it up to biomass 8 that could help there. Sure, getting stomp or waiting for bio 9 to get xeno would usually be better; but if you end up having no onos or few skulks, it'd be nice to have something useful for the fades. At that point I'd think the fades would generally be busy trying to deal with the marines, so they wouldn't be able to suddenly turn into structure-bulldozers.

It'd just be nice to have something useful, even if it's unlikely to get researched.

loMe says

The only thing I could think of as a possible change for a 3rd ability other than stab is an attack that is effective against structures. So a researchable skill that allows you to res bite and stuff. Just an idea.

Prommah says

Yeah, maybe. I feel that adding even more of a snowball effect to the third hive might not be great though. If you moved it up to biomass 8 that could help there. Sure, getting stomp or waiting for bio 9 to get xeno would usually be better; but if you end up having no onos or few skulks, it'd be nice to have something useful for the fades. At that point I'd think the fades would generally be busy trying to deal with the marines, so they wouldn't be able to suddenly turn into structure-bulldozers.

5 fades late game confirmed...
Isn't NS2 a game that should focus on teamwork?
I don't think that fade against 1 marine (and comm giving meds) should have easy time
and giving them ability to damage structures isn't good imo, unless they are still going to have worse DPS than skulks.

I agree with the above lerk comment.

I think the lerk should be looked at. I don't believe lerks need massive buffs, but I feel as though they would benefit from some slight optimization. They don't scale well at all. they're good early and mid-game they can be effective (depending on how they are being played). But late game they aren't that effective.

I think a bit more of a armour boost would be nice. (nothing exaggerated), i know most would love to be able to take an extra 3 bullets.

Maybe working on their manoeuvrability a bit. (small boost to vertical/horizontal speed), maybe making it slightly easier to 'take off' as a lerk while on the ground.

And it'd be nice to be able to flap closer to the ground with losing control of the lerk.

Dunno. Lerks are finicky

No new weapons, no new exos.

I think aliens are fine as they are. The way I view lerks right now is purely as early game weapons. Only have 1 in late game for umbra (if even that).

Of course if hit reg is fixed, I think we'll need to rebalance some things.

Syknik says

I agree with the above lerk comment.

I think the lerk should be looked at. I don't believe lerks need massive buffs, but I feel as though they would benefit from some slight optimization. They don't scale well at all. they're good early and mid-game they can be effective (depending on how they are being played). But late game they aren't that effective.

I think a bit more of a armour boost would be nice. (nothing exaggerated), i know most would love to be able to take an extra 3 bullets.

Maybe working on their manoeuvrability a bit. (small boost to vertical/horizontal speed), maybe making it slightly easier to 'take off' as a lerk while on the ground.

And it'd be nice to be able to flap closer to the ground with losing control of the lerk.

Dunno. Lerks are finicky

Personally the Lerk is fine with it's current amount of mobility, even though the thought of having some more maneuverability when flying Y,X and Z directions would be cool. But the thing about having a few points of extra armor?

The current amount of armor with Cara is enough to avoid a 1 shot from a SG so far from what i have being lucky being surviving from their ambushes.

How about the Lerks get a extra points towards actual health (Like 2-6 points per biomass level just having Bio 3 would already have that endurance against 3 bullets or more) that would be a nice steady increase in HP when it comes to late games in the end right?

The lerk becomes a supporting lifeform in late-game, it's not supposed to be soloing rines or something... you use umbra and spikes, that's what you gotta do

BauerJankins says

The lerk becomes a supporting lifeform in late-game, it's not supposed to be soloing rines or something... you use umbra and spikes, that's what you gotta do

I wasn't saying it should be able to solo, I said they don't scale well, they barely get any benefits while going from early to late game.

Syknik says

BauerJankins says

The lerk becomes a supporting lifeform in late-game, it's not supposed to be soloing rines or something... you use umbra and spikes, that's what you gotta do

I wasn't saying it should be able to solo, I said they don't scale well, they barely get any benefits while going from early to late game.

Barely any befefits ?
Engaging with umbra is really powerful (but takes a lot of energy so you need to be careful about it).
And I agree with previous comments that lerk in late game has support role.

bump hp for lerk per biomass by like 3hp's and see what that does.

WhySoSerious says

Syknik says

BauerJankins says

The lerk becomes a supporting lifeform in late-game, it's not supposed to be soloing rines or something... you use umbra and spikes, that's what you gotta do

I wasn't saying it should be able to solo, I said they don't scale well, they barely get any benefits while going from early to late game.

Barely any befefits ?
Engaging with umbra is really powerful (but takes a lot of energy so you need to be careful about it).
And I agree with previous comments that lerk in late game has support role.

The point being is that the lerk is a fragile being in late games with 2w/2a marines with whatever tech they got at that point, the idea would be have the lerks still proof useful and durable instead of being a fragile umbra dispenser 24/7 even with über stornk umbra the lerk is still fragile if you concentrated the lerk down hard enough, which usually is a priority to prevent this über stornk umbra from protecting others and being a nuisance to you and your fellow marines.

So the main point being is to have the lerk still be as useful and durable when the game progresses from early- mid-game to late-game, the lerk isn't meant to be a tank/meatshield/bullet sponge like the babblers and onoses have being proofed to be, but to still being a support unit along side a gorge but just slightly more durable to have that slight chance in scaling and like Simba said; let's just increase the HP per biomass by # and see does it make a larger than wanted affect to early- mid game to late game.

I disagree strongly with doing this... it's not like late game aliens are too weak or something, I don't really get the point of buffing anything alien-related. People are having problems with the lifeforms they play so they want them to be buffed, wtf is this? Ask others about how to handle the lifeforms then, but don't ask the comp mod team to change anything in this game so YOU can have an easier time on the field... it's kinda egoistic

It should be noted that the lerk has 5 less base armor in compmod vs vanilla, and gets 3 extra HP for every biomass (2 in vanilla). Carapace armor values are the same as vanilla tho.

I don't think there is anything wrong with marines being able to pick lerks out mid-late game when they are supporting with umbra, that needs to be able to happen. If the lerk is too durable itself then pushing through that umbra backed alien pack would probably be next to impossible. From previous experiments a little extra HP goes a long way for increasing survivability of the lerk.

I caution against making changes currently because it would be quite difficult to get a good baseline on the impacts. From the games I have seen it seems alot has shaken up, and NS2's balance is sooo dependent on teamwork.

I am not against changes in the long run however, but I am not sure how many others are left from the original team anymore.

From a Marine standpoint, I don't think Lerks need to be changed or buffed. I think they are definitely a necessity in late game. This is a point when Marines have at least 3 shotguns on the field, and lerks are the only safe lifeform to spike from a distance against. On top of that, Umbra is incredibly powerful in late game engagements, especially with drifter support like hallucinations. I don't think they need more hp at the end because you need to be able to target them and get a pick on that life form to sway the fight in your favor.

I've think I heard someone with massive bergs (i'm pretty sure it was Onehit) keep repeating in gathers, that fades need to be able to wall jump, as it would solve speed issues and so forth...
Just bringing the idea to the table, as he surely won't!

But regarding the balance in 1v1's (fade/marines), it's fairly even in my opinion. Fades dying as a result of low energy or slow speed, in my experience, happens often when a fade is too greedy, and will stick around for that last swipe, when they shouldn't... But that's only from a marine perspective as I don't play fade much (read not at all).

Side note:
Stab is kinda like the old focus in NS1, and that was op as f**k! So pls don't touch that, k! :-)

I really don't think lerks need touching

BauerJankins says

I disagree strongly with doing this... it's not like late game aliens are too weak or something, I don't really get the point of buffing anything alien-related. People are having problems with the lifeforms they play so they want them to be buffed, wtf is this? Ask others about how to handle the lifeforms then, but don't ask the comp mod team to change anything in this game so YOU can have an easier time on the field... it's kinda egoistic

Give me a break with your degrading comment about people being unable to play their lifeforms. Trust me i know very well the survivability of the lerk and how to play it well, early, mid, and late game.

Let me be perfectly clear, i don't care if any changes are made to the lerk. What i'm talking about is some very small changes. My manoeuvrability comment is a perfect world scenario (never expect that to go in), the HP, doesn't matter to me, i'm just saying I know lerks would love to be able to take 1-2 extra bullets (not referring to early/mid game), and lerk take-off.

I'm bringing up the lerk because they're rarely spoken about in terms of life-forms people wanting adjustments being made too. The only time lerks are brought up is when people make dumb changes to them. Bile-bombing lerks, lerks with umbra at an early biomass, lerks purring from a fucking mile away, etc++..

Currently we have people asking for speed increase for the fade, HP buff, decreasing the cost of their blink, and wanting to look at it's atk dmg type (for structures), and people have a discussion about it. Then the lerk is brought up and it's the end of the world. People then get defensive and attack other players.

P.S - Yes i'm assuming the comment was directed towards the lerk discussion. If you meant it in general, fact still remains that it was a shit attack towards players.

The thread is for discussions, doesn't mean that just because something is brought up that any type of change will be made. No need for people to go all 'berg and toxic.

As you said, the thread is for discussion... don't accuse me of being toxic towards anyone, I was just making a point - I wasn't offending anyone. Don't get all angry and try to defend yourself, I could call that toxic too. And yes, I was addressing lome as much as I was addressing you, just think about it and get off ya horse

I agree with bauer actually. He commented on the possibility that lifeforms aren't a problem but the player's skill is. It is completely reasonable to suggest that when talking about balance.

Now lets simmer down and discuss why you think lerk changes are actually needed.

I'm also directly concerned about the lerk because I play it.

The thing is that in all games fighter planes have missile or rockets EXCEPT in ns2...
The lerk is keeping his cheap submachine spikes gun and that's bad, u cant kill a men w/h darts lel.

No seriously I agree with Bauer, the lerk is a very good lifeform early and mid game if well played (which is certainly not my case :D). Increasing his armor is a nonsense, just do some loopings, even with a very good aim it still very hard to kill a lerk which is moving very well.