season 3! [EDIT]

You are now able to sign up for ensl season 3!

Clans who want to participate in the upcoming season can do so by going to this link
-If the link doesnt work go to your clan;
(for e.g #endgame.ns would be here - Here)
Then click on "Edit Team Details".

*** Note only clan leaders can do this!***

You should then see some thing similar to this
("Want to play next season" with a tickable box.)

Tick the box only if you are sure you have enough time and players to compete through out the season.

Im looking forward to seeing what new talent european ns has to bring :)

[EDIT] Signups close tonight, friday 13th of january. As last season the players who joins a team during the first week will be able to play (except if they come from another team applying this season).

Skyice on 03 January 06 07:59

History | Comments: 127

Comments

By: weezer on 03/Jan/06 11:01
thumbs up...
By: crt on 03/Jan/06 11:29
gg. site system selected ascii as austrian clan yeaaaaaaaa.
By: frG ( TROLLS ) on 03/Jan/06 11:40
fixed!
By: jiriki ( old people ) on 04/Jan/06 04:53
In the teams section, there looks like to be 20 members in Levitacus though there're only 10 in the lineup. And credits go for sola, lorf.
By: mu on 04/Jan/06 05:04
CATBUS is south african, I find this to be quite offensive as we are an all Panamanian clan
By: Skyice on 04/Jan/06 06:10
"In the teams section, there looks like to be 20 members in Levitacus though there're only 10 in the lineup. And credits go for sola, lorf."

jiriki, this may because they have 10 members waiting to be accept or refused.
By: weezer on 04/Jan/06 06:52
lol
By: jiriki ( old people ) on 06/Jan/06 07:07
Okay.. lorf.

Anyways, the poll on the right side is pretty outdated! :P
By: sherpa ( cisequaltothree ) on 06/Jan/06 08:50
Think of a new poll and I'll add it.

This should be fun...
By: frost on 06/Jan/06 11:04
Hah! Nice controversial poll there. I'll vote on it, even though I have, as you have sherpa, been privvy to the cold hard facts about that very subject. (Hint - answer 2 is wrong)

But one of those choices is going to be picked because its full of drama, in essence its only a game, and caring is low on my priorities. But then, after playing NS again after a while (damn evening shifts!) I notice on thing never changes!

Kill a "good" quake player and your congratulated.

Kill a "good" (hah) ns player and you'd think the world just ended!
By: Skyice on 06/Jan/06 12:07
yeah, i wanted to see what kind of responce i would get from the community.

i personaly dont think its getting smaller. thoe it is already small there is definatly new talent coming into the scence.
By: weezer on 06/Jan/06 13:17
your clan and a few others are the new talent skyice, and while thats a nice thing tbh i think were all a bit more interested in the lucky.ns and knife comebacks

season 3 should be a good one
By: sherpa ( cisequaltothree ) on 06/Jan/06 14:14
I had nothing to do with that poll, Fro'.

Totally agree with what you said, though.

In a feeble attempt to play some pub NS without getting unmasked, I removed my icon with the "auth;spectate;readyroom" bind. Nearly got booted for hacking.

Which I think backs up your point in that the community is quite small, yet the skill gaps are pretty large.

i.e. You've got permission to play well if you have an icon, and iconless people have no right to kill the known players.
By: jiriki ( old people ) on 06/Jan/06 16:20
Yeah I agree with tmk. First it looked like all the old players were quiting but then they started coming back. Knife's and luckys comebacks are prime examples of this. And I look forward to S3, it is going to be interesting.

On the other hand scene is a lot smaller than it used to be. For example, there're two NS-servers in Finland when there used to something like seven. The same pattern works for clan scene and especially matches. More players are playing public than competetive ns than before.

It's hard to say if it's getting bigger. Lots of clans die, but lots of clans are founded too. I think 'stays same' is the best answer, but its still a lot smaller than it used to be before.
By: frost on 06/Jan/06 18:50
There are still far to many servers for playernumbers.

But the playernumbers have remained constant for the last 2 and a half years, with the only increase/decline when a new NS is released or a new game is released which takes peoples interest.

As for clans, there was never really that many at any one time. I believe it peaked at the release of 2.0, mainly due to the fabled ATi cup, aside from that its also remained constant.
By: anderval on 06/Jan/06 20:22
i had typed something sensible out but,

NS IS DYING
By: FreeZe on 06/Jan/06 21:56
I think everybody is right today
By: cleJs on 08/Jan/06 06:20
how about allowing scripts this season? :0 o0
By: weezer on 08/Jan/06 06:42
pistol scripts are boring :|
By: frost on 08/Jan/06 08:13
One thing that was always cool about half-life was its complete customisability. The whole "anti-script" thing seems to have started with one person, and spread, almost like a flu virus in a small town (not to say the anti-script view is wrong, just a comparison).

I would never have imagined the amount of hate that people would gain against that customisability. People make the association that if someone wants to use a script in the game, then it has to be a pistol script, which I can see is a bit over the top, sure, but they have been arround for aslong as NS. The majority of us didn't care, but a few just threw all their anger towards the individuals who they thought were using one. Whether they were or not didn't matter, it was the begining of the NS community becoming how it is now. Like it or not, it is full of people who get extreme anger from the slightest things in the game, pointlessly. There is the means to code a firing cap to the pistol, but how slow/fast? 0.1 seconds? 0.2?

Anyway, I don't believe the leagues or any tournaments should use the variable to block these things, whether I use them or not, doesn't matter. They are personal option of the engine chosen for the mod, there is no point getting upset over them, attacking people who use them, penalising these people by blocking them, it was an intended function of the half-life engine, surpassed by the aliasing systems in the next gen games, and even the sub par ones (hl2 + d3). They are everywhere.

Its a very petty argument, but allowing scripts is no worse than a server using plugins. The only real difference is there is an aliasing engine built in, where plugins are 3rd party software.

Also, on the subject of pistol scripts, the variable is useless, with mouse software customisability you can set your mouse1 to "double click", no macro/script involved and achieve a rate of fire much faster than an average script could.

But then, I know how much lump hates scripts, but I don't fully understand why.
By: Skyice on 08/Jan/06 09:10
The pistol is proberly the best weapon to use against aliens at the start of a match. its fast, it does alot of damage and it is very accurate.

People have many different techniques when it comes to "pistol whipping" aliens...

Some people use a key on there keyboard to fire fast with pistol, while others use mouse wheel.

I think there should be a limit of how much client side customization is alowed. At the end of the day, we want the best clan with the best team work and skill to win. If the ensl alowed scripts it would be the best clan with the most and best scripts win.

Think about it-

The marines have dmg 2, theres 5 players in dbl, a fade runs in and every single rine used there pistol script on the fade... the fade gets out skilled by a pistol.

Im not against pistol scripts or any other types of scripts in fact, but im against it being alowed in leagues, tournements and cups that are as big as the ensl.
By: sherpa ( cisequaltothree ) on 08/Jan/06 09:29
Argh, a script that fires 2 shots with 1 click is NOT replacing skill.

The ONLY scripts that replace skill (IMO) are those that move your perspective for you. i.e. American player Golden has a script that instantly turns him 180 degrees, for when a skulk is biting his hamstrings.

Overall, I say allow scripting. If you think it replaces skill, then we are at a disadvantage to the Americans (and if you ask me, these kinds of scripts are bad in the long run as the marine has less "adaptability"). If you don't think it replaces skill, then why care?
By: anderval on 08/Jan/06 09:32
i miss the ns forums :(
By: mentalist on 08/Jan/06 09:56
true samurai don't use scripts.
By: lump on 08/Jan/06 10:36
Enough variables effect outcomes of the game, I want as few as possible.

I can't stop macros which do this but I can the scripts.

(yes the DO effect the ouctome of a game if they alter firing speeds and other such things like changing rates mid movement to make you harder to hit. It may not be a massive effect but it is still AN effect.)
By: jiriki ( old people ) on 08/Jan/06 11:19
Let's start the GREAT WALL OF FLAME again! Well I guess I am bored.

Scripts don't replace skill and teamwork but playing with scripts is like giving the other team 55 round lmg clips. Those five bullets probably won't change the outcome, but that doesn't justify giving the other team those five bullets.

And oh. Scripts don't give you advantage? Well lets think a bout pistol script. There're two tick boxes.

"How fast do you want to shoot your pistol?"

- "At constant, high rate." (script)

- "Rather random rate of fire, depends on weather and whether I like you" (skill)

Which box do you tick? I tick lower, somebody ticks the upper. But hey THAT's customization!11

Another comparison. If you can't shoot fast enough with your finger, wouldn't you still WANT TO shoot fast enough (like the supercool fraghunter on public)? Go get a pistol script. And so we could allow aimbots for those who have can't see properly. Problem fixed!

The second problem is you can't control what kind of scripts other team uses. We can always presume their are scripts are not lame (not to say pistol script is not :P) but we never know for sure. When we can't control, we should disable them. Then the only 'extra advantage' is wheel which can be used rather limitedly.

Oh, and don't compare (nobody did here yet) scripts to some kind of settings like sensitivity. Sensitivity is a variable with a float (or an integer) value. Scripts are programs (that's why they are called scripts), just primitive (since they don't have control structures) - there's difference. And oh +attack is a program!1

Caution! Exaggerated comparison incoming!

Let's say 2525 Mars people like playing with the internal autoaim enabled and valve would support it because its customization, but the outdated Earth people don't like - they like more aiming themselves. Of course Mars people would demand to use them because its customization, valve supports it and they couldn't play their best without them. It's the Earth's decision whether to use! But hey no problem, you can aim as good if you are just good enough! And if you are having problem with the autoaim-part, replace it with cl_autoshootfast and cl_autobhopfast!

And pls don't say scripts are all fine because valve supports them! Valve is not god (last time I checked), they have just chosen their opinion. Theirs is not more right than ours (beware teh FALSE opinions!). Oh and they don't (look like) support(ing) ns either!1

I'm fine with the scripts when they don't affect the gameplay (eg. net_graph stuff).

And you could compare scripts to viruses too. Totally irrevelant point. Hey maybe democracy is like a virus, it spread among people!

And Jp. How does enabling scripts help me with (imagined) cross-continental matches if I still don't want to use scripts? Do I start shooting (constantly) as fast as them when I've played enough?

After all, this is more like a culture question.

Btw. Isn't this going a bit OFFTOPIC?
By: Skyice on 08/Jan/06 11:44
"Btw. Isn't this going a bit OFFTOPIC?"

Nah. descussions like this are part of the fun XD
By: frost on 08/Jan/06 12:03
" can't stop macros which do this but I can the scripts."

Therefore dissadvantaging those who don't know what a macro is, or how to use one?

"things like changing rates mid movement to make you harder to hit."

Client side rate variables, due to how the engine works, only affect one person. The person who changes their rates. Everyone else has a stream from the server, they are only connected to the other player through the server, unaffected by the changes said player makes to their connection variables. It is a 2 system conversation, client to server and back. If you are dropping packets, then the servers prediction, relays information to the other clients normally, to an extent, then the other clients prediction pick up the movement and smooth it out. Only a connection dropping for an instant, or the server load being considerably high causing it to lose fps, and stop updating clients, will cause the players to experience others warp. Client to server routing has an impact, variables in a config only affect the person who has those variables.

I thought I explained all that to you before.

Servers are also not infallable, and if the fps drops below your own rates then you will "lose" bullets, due to you attempting to update faster than the server can recieve, remember half-life is very fps dependant, that doesn't just apply to clients.

"If you don't think it replaces skill, then why care?"

Because for a long time it has been the "in thing" to put up your defences and give as much abuse as possible to people for them. When in reality perhaps the player is only attempting to change how slot 4 works. So that on its first press it brings out a welder, on its second it switches to slot2 then slot1, preserving lastinv as two offencive weapons, instead of pressing slot1 then 2, yes I know its easy enough to do manually, but these are the sort of things people vehemously attack others for.

For the record, I only want NS to be more enjoyable for everybody, the fact that such a variable has caused so much abuse in the community disgusts me. If a more relaxed view on these issues releaves that, then thats progress in my eyes.

And on a side note, I used a .cfg full of scripts, just after I had an accident at work in 2004, which caused a huge loss of function is 7 of my fingers. There was things at that time, and for about 6 months after that I simply could not do without their aid, duck and press a slot for instance. You can happily have the community show hate towards people who are physically unable to do the things you can?

The game is meant to be fun for all, not only those who have full motor functionality of their hands.
By: frost on 08/Jan/06 12:07
"And oh. Scripts don't give you advantage? Well lets think a bout pistol script. There're two tick boxes.

"How fast do you want to shoot your pistol?"

- "At constant, high rate." (script)

- "Rather random rate of fire, depends on weather and whether I like you" (skill)

Which box do you tick? I tick lower, somebody ticks the upper. But hey THAT's customization!11"

Your point is moot, you can achieve a much higher rate of fire from mouse options, since they are not limited by the fps of the game.

And thanks for proving one of the points I was making about the situation =/
By: tjo on 08/Jan/06 12:53
I hope you are kidding frost, about the rates. You can try it yourself, have a friend bhop around you while using any rates they with, but cmdrate 100, and then have them change it to cmdrate 10. You WILL notice a difference.

This is irrefutable, regardless of how it should work, and how the code looks like. I have a farily good idea of how the system works (on a full-system overlook scale, not in detail to be sure, I'm not a programmer or educated in basic networking or whatever), but what I think I know and what you think you know about the inner workings of the HL engine has nothing to do with it. The fact is that you DO notice a difference. A big difference.

Now of course this is stopped with the cal plugin which kicks you if you change rates to a low value while on the server.

When it comes to scripts: this is a difficult subject. Personally the only script I care little for is the pistol script as it makes it much easier to aim at a high rate of fire and does have the power to in some circumstances change the outcome of a game by enhancing a players abilities beyond what that player can do on his own. Of course, this can be done by using a 3rd party macro program as well, but that is surely cheating, is it not? 3rd party software have never been allowed.
By: frost on 08/Jan/06 14:17
tjosan, the only time something doesn't die for me when it is "meant to" is because I have missed, cmd rate 100 is too high for 99% of servers outside lan events anyway :p
By: crt on 08/Jan/06 14:44
i hate long comments.
By: jiriki ( old people ) on 09/Jan/06 05:21
"Your point is moot, you can achieve a much higher rate of fire from mouse options, since they are not limited by the fps of the game."

Ehm.. How? If you mean wheel - maybe - I don't use it (for attack). I find shooting & aiming with wheel a lot harder than with mouse1 (which gives a better rate of fire with a script than mere attack). Which is propably the reason why pistol script is considered lame in EU (by the majority).

Correct if I'm wrong, but why do majority of US (since bs is off there) use pistol script if it wasn't better? Same goes for bhopscript.

It's just.

Pistolscript > wheelpistol / mouse1pistol

Scriptbhop > wheelbhop

And unless you want to script, you are at disadvantage.

But you know, pistol script is not the only script. Scripts can do a lot things - we NEVER know what kind of abusers we're facing. With wheel there are only few practical uses for them. If you disable scripts, there're none. It's totally same thing with consistency, except pink skulks are a lot BIGGER issue than a pistol script. Nevertheless, it doesn't change the fact its an issue.

Consistency is on because nobody can draw the red line! I don't see how blockscripts is different.

"For the record, I only want NS to be more enjoyable for everybody, the fact that such a variable has caused so much abuse in the community disgusts me. If a more relaxed view on these issues releaves that, then thats progress in my eyes."

Abuse of blockscript? I'm disgusted by the (ab)use of scripts.

ps. Is there no bold, I hate caps.
By: cleJs on 09/Jan/06 05:29
the warming system in my house is kinda broken, and im sitting in my basement freezing when im playing. i don't know about you, but i can't shoot nearly as fast as i want to when i have cold fingers, so
By: sherpa ( cisequaltothree ) on 09/Jan/06 06:46
And Jp. How does enabling scripts help me with (imagined) cross-continental matches if I still don't want to use scripts? Do I start shooting (constantly) as fast as them when I've played enough?

Because you read my post in the way you wanted, not in the way I intended. I said:

"If YOU think it replaces skill, then we are at a disadvantage to the Americans"

For the record:

1) I do not believe that scripts improves your play.

2) I do not have a single script in my config files.

3) Yet I am quite happy for the ENSL to allow scripts because of (1).
By: frost on 09/Jan/06 08:42
No jiriki, I mean on mouse1, there is an option for it to double click, instead of a single. For simple tasks like opening a folder, only one press required with it enabled, in games it translates exactly the same way, firing off whatever command mouse1 controls at extraordinary speeds, when pressed reasonably quickly.
By: frost on 09/Jan/06 09:07
And please, enlighten us what ones are abusive, since the removal of _special we were under the impression that all the absive scripts were pushed out of the game, since to gain the same kind of ability they achieved locks the rest of the controls out until the script finishes.

Don't type the code, just explain what they are, and we, myself and sherpa atleast, can send on that information directly to those it would concern.

The thing is, there is no middle ground, your correct about that. But I do believe that with the removal of _special made mp_blockscripts redundant, since most peoples only issue, or knowledge of scripts extends as far as pistol and jump ones.

I do not agree with "considered lame in EU (by the majority)." this statement. More realistically, it is considered lame in the EU by the louder people. Whether that is 20% 40% or 80% of us, can't be proven.

The spiked models statement again, points to something created by a 3rd party, suggesting that what someone can do with the console, or a config file is anywhere near what a malicious 3rd party can introduce is way off the mark.

Aside all that, these games are _all_ meant to be referee'd, and demo'd by all players involved. If anything beyond the scope of what is "normal" occurs, would that not show up to someone? Of course it would.

The comments about americans:- they are no harder to play against than people from the uk or eu.
By: B1 ( iMAGINE ) on 09/Jan/06 11:29
honestly i don't see your point in bitching. if scripts were enabled you would have the SAME advantage (if you now see it as that) as every other player. www.google.com ?

im not for scripts nor am i against them. if you really want to settle this make a new poll for ENSL Season III. "Scripts or not?"

if you're sitting there thinking scripting is gonna make great players... please get your head out of your butt and join this centuary.
By: sherpa ( cisequaltothree ) on 09/Jan/06 12:09
New poll up.

(I suck at quitting NS)
By: ben on 09/Jan/06 13:35
I'd add a third option: I'm indifferent/stupid/ignorant and dont know what im talking about so my opinion should be ignored.
By: weezer on 09/Jan/06 14:28
you do realise that theres around 230 players in a team in ensl. without at least 150 votes the result of that poll is quite useless, and if it even then is around 50-50% yes/no you should continue the discussion instead of just rushing mp_bs 0

this isnt because im afraid of 1) losing the vote 2) scripters but just to ensure that DEMOCRACY (since when did the internet have that) succeeds =)
By: jiriki ( old people ) on 10/Jan/06 02:38
Agreed with tmk (think about ns_mineshaft) and neither I am afraid of scripts in ENSL. I just don't like them (the ones affecting your game), but I really don't mind if the bs is really off.
By: tjo on 10/Jan/06 05:16
Democracy is a bad idea when it comes to sports, especially when the participants are on average at or below 15 years old.

And you're wrong frost, a cmdrate 10 skulk is hit the same as a cmdrate 100 skulk, regardless of if you see it or not, but all the same it will be harder to kill it. Tracking is somewhat affected when you can only see the target 1/10 of each second, especially if this is changed mid-fight. Anyway, it's a small point.
By: cleJs on 10/Jan/06 05:57
I don't think age has much to do with this.

And I think the final decision should be made by the league admins and not by a vote, although a vote could help in topics they aren't sure on what to decide..
By: frost on 10/Jan/06 06:27
"And you're wrong frost, a cmdrate 10 skulk is hit the same as a cmdrate 100 skulk"

o.O Thats exactly what I said.

The person who will be affected by over high rates on a server that cannot handle is is the person with the overly high rates, not the other people >_>.

Remember why the maximum is 100 on it, because 100 is the maximum fps of the graphics engines rendering capabilities. But rates in the region of 18000 80 80 require near perfect conditions to be "good", they are stupudly high, for a game that is so erratic in client and server fps.

If I set my connection variables to the "tend" of rate stupidly high update/cmdrate stupidly high and ex_interp 0, ofcourse I will get choppy results, since my client is doing less than 1/10 of a seconds predicting the movement of the others. There are not many servers out these that can update you that fast.

There are many many myths about client connection variables.
By: weezer on 10/Jan/06 06:31
look that might be true for your crappy uk modems but not for the scandinavian high-speed perfect quality internet
By: Skyice on 10/Jan/06 08:05
From the results of the poll on scripting so far, we can see that around 30 people are against scripts being alowed and around 40 are for scrips being alowed.

i feel that if we were to alow scripts we will be up-setting 30 or more people.

thoe at the end of the day it isnt up to me... i dont think its worth changing a setting when there is aound 45% of people against it.
By: Mike on 10/Jan/06 08:40
You do what you want to do on your pcw, bs 1 or 0 cons 1 or 0. But you'll never see bs 0 on ensl. unless i am kick from the staff :(

Script can be usefull for some ppl who use this to switch configuration between marine/alien/fade/lerk/whatever. But some ppl will use scripts to never use adre on lerk/fade, to bug hitbox as lerk which is for me close to cheat. And it's because of these guys that i am against bs 0.
By: ben on 10/Jan/06 08:53
Im sorry but your position as admin is to cater to the will of the community and not to push your own agenda. If, and I say if a poll, or a vote of clan leaders, or any other way you want to take a census of opinion shows that the community majority is in favour of bs_0 then you should do your job and implement it.

Further more, there is no script to use no adrenaline as lerk, there are scripts that do use miminal adrenaline as fade, but hey you know what have you ever tried binding mousewheel to attack and blinking? There is no script to bug the hitbox on a lerk either. A lerk can pancake excessively with a 2/3jump however again, it is no different from using the mousewheel.

Do your job as admin and make a responsible decision based off the will of the community one way or the other. Do not base your decision on misinformation.
By: Skyice on 10/Jan/06 10:32
benjamin, if we do what you say and make a desision based on the favourite of the comunity, then it will still remain bs 1 because of the number of clans and players we would upset if we changed it to 0.
By: ben on 10/Jan/06 10:50
Then so be it, but it should be based off that and not prejudice, i mean he has just made up a random script as a reason not to have bs_0, it's stupid.
By: cream on 10/Jan/06 11:21
Allow scripts / mp_blockscripts 0

56

Block scripts / mp_blockscripts 1

35

well whats better 35 ppl upset or 56 ?
By: SlayerX ( Team Poland ) on 10/Jan/06 11:42
Well, the poll lacks "i don't care' option.
By: Skyice on 10/Jan/06 12:18
cream is seems most people who wants bs 0 arnt to botherd if it stays at bs .

ensl rules are fine as they stand. end of.
By: Skyice on 10/Jan/06 12:19
time for a new poll me thinks XD
By: FreeZe on 10/Jan/06 12:58
Luckly, Mike isnt talking in the name of all the admins.
By: Mike on 10/Jan/06 16:50
Dear ben, i didn't make up those things, i talked with psycho who are in us community and i think he knows what he is talking about when he said this to me.

Beside a vote can make staff talking, discussing, thinking about bs 1 or bs 0. The whole decision will be made between us frg freeze me and probably lump and skyice. At least we made that league so i guess we could make some decision. And you know it's still a free world, and there are some other leagues if you know what i mean..

The only things who can make me thing about bs 0 will be more control about script like we did in tfc for customs (customs available but we can avoid transparent muzzle and so on). _special and wait are disable, but still pistol script, adre keeper ...
By: ben on 10/Jan/06 17:15
Yeh psycho knew what he was talking about, thats why the NS world cup is bs_0. Like so many scripts that the world sees fit to whine about, your precious adrenaline conserving/keeping/whatever the fuck ever is just mimicing the mousewheel and there to offer the user the choice of which key to use.
By: Mike on 10/Jan/06 18:25
This is not why he choose bs 0. But nice try.
By: nubjje on 10/Jan/06 19:45
At the end of the day If u have it u have it dont use scripts.

E.G Premership Football players and COnfrence Football leagues tbh.

Any enhancements are wrong.. (what world should u have an advantage over anyone?
By: cleJs on 10/Jan/06 20:19
As said earlier, you can just use mwheel to get the same result as with an "adren-script". And a script that bugs the lerk hitbox? Please just inform me what you're talking about.

And I didn't understand nubjje's post :(
By: frost on 10/Jan/06 20:49
cleJs:- thats because his post didn't make any sense :p

Thing is, noone has any advantage over anyone, in the scope of whats doable via alias'. Where people with say, logitech mouse, has a huge advantage over people with standard mouse, since in logitech options you can set mouse buttons to "double click", with a standard mouse you can not. Do that on both mouse1 and mouse2, instant aid with pistol and bunnyhop, disadvantaging the others, infact go all the way, and set your mousewheel to do it. As far as I know (since no reasonable person would put it there) mouse software doesn't come under the "illegal 3rd party software" category, therefor is perfectly fine?

"if you're sitting there thinking scripting is gonna make great players... please get your head out of your butt and join this centuary."

Could have been said better.
By: frost on 10/Jan/06 20:50
*couldn't*
By: cream on 11/Jan/06 01:48
im botherd , scripts are my life :/

i need my med pack scripts or i get no meds :(
By: ben on 11/Jan/06 05:53
Please tell me this magically script that bugs the lerks hitbox.
By: ben on 11/Jan/06 05:59
ps cream your medpack request scripts will still work they just have to be aliased.
By: frost on 11/Jan/06 06:24
"Please tell me this magically script that bugs the lerks hitbox"

It doesn't exist. It has to be 3jump he is refering to.
By: ben on 11/Jan/06 06:28
And thats different from a mousewheel how?
By: sherpa ( cisequaltothree ) on 11/Jan/06 06:35
' logitech mouse, has a huge advantage over people with standard mouse, since in logitech options you can set mouse buttons to "double click" '

Holy shit we can do that?!

I think this further proves the point that if someone wants a control advantage, they can do it with bs1.

P.S. Why do so many of you still think that scripting is the Devil? It's like most of the archaic pub admins who say "base sell = ban"; harkening back to 1.04 days where you want the satisfaction of killing the last marine after a hard-fought 40min round. No-one cares anymore.
By: cream on 11/Jan/06 09:49
when i say medpack script , i meant rate hack script :P
By: Skyice on 11/Jan/06 09:59
scripts are not needed. So we won't put them in the ensl.

Only 65 people for scripts. and there is 54 people that dont want scripts.

around 45.6% of the people who voted want bs 1

around 54.4% of the people who voted want bs 0

Its not worth upsetting the 45.6% people over a setting that has been bs 1 for 2 seasons now?

Also we don't know who voted for which exacly. If 15 clan leaders want bs 1 and we change it to 0 we could risk losing 15 clans.

Everyone signed up to ensl season 3 with the settings already chosen, which includes bs1. So we will be keeping it at bs 1 for this season at least.
By: tjo on 11/Jan/06 10:13
Seriously frost, you took one sentence out of a not so incredibly long paragraph. If it makes you feel better I could add a "while" to the first sentence and you can reread it again. KK.

You just cant deny that there is a huge difference in the visual aspect between a low-end cmdrate and a high end one, regardless of your irrelevant claims that 100 is to high.

The unfortunate fact is that you keep making poor and pathetic attempts at very basic rethorical tricks, and the only reason why it seems to work is because this is the interweb.

Now, if you would please either post an acceptance of what i just said, or a rewrite of the response in which you tried to make me look stupid I'd appreciate.

SINCERELY (since this adds a sense of me being better than the majority),

Oskar Sköld
By: ben on 11/Jan/06 10:41
wow %'s that really validates your post oh no whoops. Your looking at this in totally the wrong way skyice, yes for the last two seasons it has been bs_1. And a poll is being taken and over half the people aren't happy with this decision according to it. Now I dont think a decision should be taken based soley off this poll, however I think this poll warrents a serious discussion on the matter, a far more serious discussion then apparently m//ke is willing to allow.

No one should be upset by having bs_0. It doesn't effect them, people however will be unhappy if they wish to script and have to play on bs_1. At least with bs_0 it is a teams choice.

Anyway, I'm going to float the following idea: Lets use the rule that NSworldcup uses. If neither team wants to allow scripts then let it be bs_1 (not that it'd matter, if neither team wants scripts then neither team will script and it could be anything), however if one team wants to script then it's bs_0. If some teams have issues with certain scripts they compromises could be taken, for example my clan will happily play a bs_1 marine round if you're worried about pistol scripts (lol hi maso) but would prefer a bs_0 alien round so we (well me :D) can use a 3jump.

You could also propose an outlawed set of scripts provided it could be proven they were being used. For example you couldnt outlaw a pistol script, but this supposed highly exploitable unkillable lerk distortion hitbox script should be easy to see, no?
By: frost on 11/Jan/06 11:01
I have no idea where or when I tried to make you look stupid.

You also don't have to believe what I say, or little do I care if you believe it or not.

"The unfortunate fact is that you keep making poor and pathetic attempts at very basic rethorical tricks"

Is by the use of rhetorical, you mean that what I have said is based on theory? Thats just for clarification.

Shall I word what I meant better. If your own rates are correct, there will be nothing another person can set theirs to to cause you to not be able to hit them right. If you get issues, your rates are too high for what the server is able to provide. End of story.
By: sublime ( Perfect Peckers ) on 11/Jan/06 11:17
OMFG IF WE ALL BS 0 CLEJS WILL USE HIS HITBOX DISTORTION SCRIPT AND THEN USE THAT UP AND DOWN SHIT

BS 1 LOL
By: Skyice on 11/Jan/06 11:55
Ben, thats a very good idea. thoe theres 1 problem.

Every single match proberly wont be refereed. The matches that go without ref's they wont have a choice on bs 1 or 0 because it will be set to 1 and they cant change that. this could cause arguements on "we would of won if bs 1 was on" ect.

If scripts dont increase skill or make a good player better then theres no point in using them anyway?.
By: jiriki ( old people ) on 11/Jan/06 13:14
Scripts makes easier to bhop, shoot a pistol, change to swipe etc. I have tried blinkswipe script and it definitely doesn't make you profade but it makes changing blinkswiping easier. Not for everyone of course. Script which makes something easier for you, is going to affect your game performance. If it wouldn't, you wouldn't use it.

And I don't like the idea of enhancing game (play) with customization. All the customization that doesn't is fine by me.

I still wonder why does 90% of competetive USA players use pistol script and scriptbhop over wheel if it wouldn't make the bhopping / shooting / whatever easier and/or more effective.

But I think my posting is pretty pointless since people just take one detail of my post and reply to it - other points are ignored.

And for the rates, doesn't really matter if you get updates from the server 100 times a sec (assuming it would be possible), if the evul ratehaxor updates the server 10 times per sec (thats every 100ms, thats like playing with ping of 100ms).

Cmdrate should be a little more than your fps. It doesn't really matter if it is 100. Server ignores all the updates it doesn't need / want. And unless the server is on really crap connection, extra cmd-pkgs waste (practically) only your connection. So if your FPS is say 80, something like 85 is fine.
http://members.westnet.com.au/wlloyd/netcode_explained_again.htm

ps. I don't think the point of this thread is to start accusing and flaming people.
By: anderval on 11/Jan/06 13:48
jiriki, if you're against all customisation that makes you play better does that mean you use default crosshairs, default rates default keybindings and default mouse sensitivity? if not then surely you're being hypocritical

3jump is not abusive it's merely mimicking the action of mousewheel onto a button that may or may not be more comfortable for someone to use, whether mousewheel in use not involved with bunnyhopping is abusive is another matter.

the 2shot pistol script does give a player an advantage, though you could argue that as people with certain mice get this action built in that allowing the script was infact evening the playing field rather than unbalancing it.

all other scripts while giving some advantage are more than compensated for by arkwardness and their effect of locking up your pc when executing them e.g. blinkswipe is actually slower and more cumbersome than lastinv though it is probably easier for poor players, wigglewalk scripts allow you to run slightly faster than normal wigglewalking though at the cost of locking up your controls making you vulnerable, adrenmanagement scripts make it easier to maintain energy as fade but makes it harder for a fade in trouble to escape quickly etcetc.

overall then there isnt really any reason to keep scripts blocked other than to comfort certain members of the community that have been deluded into thinking using 3jump instead of mousewheel is going to win you the game.
By: crt on 11/Jan/06 14:19
OMFG SPAMMERS? xD
By: jiriki ( old people ) on 11/Jan/06 15:27
Actually Anderval, you're very right. Okay, I'm not against all customization. There's no clear red line between fair and unfair customizing. Better crosshairs - no problem, pink skulks problem. For me, scripts are just on the darker side of line.

And for the record. Anderval, I doubt you support all the customization that makes the game better. More cool-looking gl-skin? Pink skulks? Spiked marines? Control structures for scripts to make them even more customizing! The line's not clear. It's about point of view.

And on the other hand, there're only limited number of variables which you can edit and their effects are mostly known. The same goes for the files you can edit when the consistency is enabled. When the scripts are enabled the number possible scripts and their effects is unlimited.

I see the dblmouseclick also as an sad issue. For that I accept usage of scripts to balance the situation, but those who don't want to script, are at disadvantage.

"overall then there isnt really any reason to keep scripts blocked other than to comfort certain members of the community that have been deluded into thinking using 3jump instead of mousewheel is going to win you the game."

Where did you get that from? I see nobody saying that (atleast not me). If you feel like the scripts don't belong in ns, aren't you justified to be against them?
By: ben on 11/Jan/06 17:39
Oh god its the question of if they dont help why do you use them again. People seem to completely misunderstand the reason for using scripts: it's not to gain an advantage through the script itself, we use them to customize our controls. There is no advantage to me using a 3jump, I can bhop full speed with mwheel, but I WANT to use space to jump and I dont want to lose the advantage the mwheel gives me over just +jump bound to space, so I use a 3jump.

It's like wearing clothes okay, theres no advantage to having fitted jeans or a nice tshirt over a dirty old poncho. They both do the same job, they cover my body. It doesn't make any difference what I wear, I just want the choice. It doesn't make any difference if I script or not, I just want the choice. Understand?
By: B1 ( iMAGINE ) on 12/Jan/06 04:18
You will never have scripts in this league or in europe aslong as people consider it cheating and tell you to go elsewhere for it. Sorry for all of you that wanted to see some change that voted, but that's the facts.

Sure scripts configurations can help you play abit easier, but I just don't see it happening this season for alot of reasons. So if you really need them, you better "adapt or die". ;[
By: dema on 12/Jan/06 05:52
quote b1 "you better "adapt or die". ;["

bobby for ns.com forum admin please if the site ever goes online again
By: frost on 12/Jan/06 06:35
The same could be said about the league, nevermind anyway.

The real question is, how many are registered on the site? Can we assume those who haven't voted don't care? Since not caring would suggest not believing scripts = cheats, then those who believe they are evil, are a vast minority.

And thats some interesting theories Mr. Lloyd has jiriki, but why did he use a quote from valve that dates well before the implementation of the new netcode?
By: frost on 12/Jan/06 06:43
As for what net_graphs 1 + 2 mean:-

red: player specific data for you only

yellow: other player data

purple: other entity data

light blue: event data

dark blue: temporary entity data

green: sound data

gray: user defined message data

white dots at top: signifies packet size (only if net_graph is set to 2)
By: csm on 12/Jan/06 09:19
macro power.
By: Skyice on 12/Jan/06 10:31
looks like we have broken the record for most comments made on 1 topic XD
By: Raza on 12/Jan/06 11:10
The polls are getting better and better...
By: weezer on 12/Jan/06 11:29
wow what a stupid poll

come on, lets be a bit more creative :s
By: ben on 12/Jan/06 11:34
so what the poll that saw over half the people say they want bs_0 is ignored and thats that? Assume it was flawed in some way and move on. ENSL: Protecting the ignorant. And why not do a poll to see who the favourite to win this season is? Or division sizes, ie smaller ones, two larger divisions, i dunno
By: Skyice on 12/Jan/06 12:45
quote tmk "wow what a stupid poll come on, lets be a bit more creative :s"

just wanted to change the topic...
By: aA on 12/Jan/06 13:40
rotfl @ poll
By: weezer on 12/Jan/06 13:47
nice try, now make up something more interesting, like what ben suggested
By: sherpa ( cisequaltothree ) on 12/Jan/06 15:30
P.S. benjie's analogy of scripts as clothes is "outside the box" thinking. I like that.
By: jiriki ( old people ) on 12/Jan/06 15:58
"looks like we have broken the record for most comments made on 1 topic"

We have also broken the record of most offtopic too. =)

Benjamin's analogy is just saying its customization (which doesn't prove anything). Nice rethoric yes, new argument no.

For the poll, I think voting for the winner (KNIFE!11) is too early atm.

ps. I think the poll requires its own commenting system.
By: jiriki ( old people ) on 12/Jan/06 15:59
And omfg, wheres the postcount?!
By: ben on 12/Jan/06 16:14
I'm sorry but what were you expecting, the arguement to allow scripting will be same as it has always been. This community is the only one archaic enough to still not allow it.
By: jiriki ( old people ) on 12/Jan/06 16:34
I wasn't expecting anything. I just replied to jp.

"This community is the only one archaic enough to still not allow it."

So people are archaic when they don't agree with you. Interesting.
By: ben on 12/Jan/06 16:58
Umm no, people are archaic when they cling to their dying beliefs whilst the rest of the NS community moves past the ignorance.
By: jiriki ( old people ) on 12/Jan/06 17:10
"And thats some interesting theories Mr. Lloyd has jiriki, but why did he use a quote from valve that dates well before the implementation of the new netcode?"

Dunno. Maybe that part hasn't changed? If I set cmdrate under my fps I start seeing red dots. Anyways, a skulk which is updates the server ten times per second is definitely hard to hit.

May I add the sandwhiches taste damn good.

ps. The edit-function would be really nice too.
By: jiriki ( old people ) on 12/Jan/06 17:21
"Umm no, people are archaic when they cling to their dying beliefs whilst the rest of the NS community moves past the ignorance."

So you are something like a god who says where the line between fair and unfair customizing goes. All the other opinions are dying beliefs and ignorance.

Btw. I don't see how doesn't my autoaim analogy work here.
By: ben on 12/Jan/06 17:38
So lets look at where this huge overwhelming advantage has been used. CAL, NSworldcup, EU NA exhibition maps and probably a few other events. Did scripts let USeast beat germany, or any of other USeast's opponents? Did you know australia plays bs_1 leagues but hey look they beat USwest on bs_0 4-0 with the ping difference? Did scripts allow the US to beat the EU even with their uber pistol scripts ina ny of the many exhib matches? Are scripts the reason knife lost to terror? Lessthanthree to adept? Did scripts cause the EU teams in CAL and NSI any problems at all?

Yeh that's what I thought.
By: ben on 12/Jan/06 17:54
PS lets also ignore the other 80 odd people who agreed with me. It's fun, right
By: anderval on 12/Jan/06 18:26
if you really want to honestly see how abusive using a script is then ask yourself: what existing legal customisation (if any) you would sacrifice to use it, i.e. would you prefer to use scripts or custom crosshairs? the answer? crosshairs of course, a customisation that offers a real advantage to using. Default rates or a 2shot script? another no brainer.

The only reason people are against scripting - incidentally the same reason people are against anything they dont fully understand - is because it has been a perpetuated myth in this community that scripts = bad. They WERE bad once, when _special wasn't blocked but alot of people seem to be under the impression that the use of them gives a much bigger advantage than it actually does.

jiriki was right when he said that the line for customisation had to be drawn somewhere, but the thing is, using scripts is already much less advantagous than any other acceptable you can make which is why it seems so illogical to be so dead set against letting them be used.

personally, i couldnt care less, true im more comfortable using a 3jump script and if the option is available i'll use a pistol script but the fact is that both of these things and any other script you could think up gives such a small advantage that noone blinks an eyelid when they cant use them - itself telling you how harmless they are.

when skyice said bs_1 should stay on because the people who wanted bs_0 didn't really care much, doesn't that show the real truth about scripting? IT GIVES SUCH A MUGE MASSIVE GAME WINNING ADVANTAGE that the people who want the option of using them don't give two craps if they cant.

I'm ranting of course, nothing will change and it doesn't really matter but the ignorance of some people is really annoying and they should actually think about what they say rather than just repeat what they've been told.

ps: mu is right
By: anderval on 12/Jan/06 18:29
oh and skyice, if you are going to delete a poll because you don't want to deal with the drama it brings at least have the courtesy to replace it with something remotely interesting or important, thanks.
By: email on 13/Jan/06 01:12
funny how the 80 or so votes for bs0 don't seem to count, as well as the reasoning that bs should stay at 1 because otherwise the poor 50-60 people who voted against would be upset.

What about the people who were using scripts and had to adapt because of the ignorance on this subject ? Yeah right. "Adapt or die" only seems to work one way here.

"stop customising your controls ffs"

lol
By: C11H17NO3 on 13/Jan/06 08:13
im a xmas tree
By: Skyice on 13/Jan/06 10:31
Dont use scripts in the first place. its not hard.

If you suck without scripts then, well... yeah.
By: weezer on 13/Jan/06 12:22
coming from an admin? good job

some people were using scripts before mp_blockscripts was ever implemented

some people were using scripts before ns was ever released, or concieved
By: FreeZe on 13/Jan/06 12:24
That's true, the old poll sux asses.
By: Mike on 13/Jan/06 12:48
skyice isn't an admin, he's a predictor..
By: mu on 13/Jan/06 13:40
why is _special bad and normal scripts not
By: Mike on 13/Jan/06 13:52
They assume that no illegal script will be made without _special.
By: ben on 13/Jan/06 13:57
No, we just don't consider lines in someones config game breaking. I dunno. Skill in NS isn't who can click the fastest.
By: mu on 13/Jan/06 14:24
so why do you people cry about _special
By: weezer on 13/Jan/06 14:58
cus the line has to be drawn somewhere, but hey youre the most educated of us here about scripts so give up some examples of whats possible with _special

;p
By: frost on 13/Jan/06 16:43
_special allowed scripts that looped commands to not lock out the keyboard/mouse while it was in action. There in allowing say, wigglewalk script, to achieve peak speed, and not cause any inconvenience.
By: Fana ( Archaea ) on 13/Jan/06 16:47
"This community is the only one archaic enough to still not allow it." -ben

Negative, the Aussies don't allow it either. I'm not making an argument here, I'm just being annoying ok.

"Are scripts the reason knife lost to terror? Lessthanthree to adept? Did scripts cause the EU teams in CAL and NSI any problems at all?" -ben

Scripts give you an advantage, there's no point in even trying to deny it. It is, however, NOT an unfair advantage. I would, like anderval, compare it to the customization of crosshair and rates. The only big problem scripts pose is the fact that they can make the game less accessible to new players, who might not enjoy the prospect of having to add loads of crap to their config. But honestly, this is competitive NS and not fucking nsgame with custom sounds and level 50 plugins.

Also knife lost because we sucked ok. Not even ping is an excuse for that performance. :
By: mu on 13/Jan/06 17:21
i'm going to have to retract my previous statements and side with pizza on this one
By: Iots ( el'pheer ) on 13/Jan/06 17:24
I typo alot.
By: Iots ( el'pheer ) on 13/Jan/06 17:48
Fine. Please go for bs_0 so i can come back to ns and actually kill something with the pistol.
By: Kylma on 13/Jan/06 18:50
The only issue is the pistol script and it's the only script that gives notable advantage.

One can achieve good ROF with mwheel, but can't possibly keep the same accuracy, when using only mouse1.
By: csm on 14/Jan/06 02:15
'when the pistol lacked a cap on the rate of fire'

I think its a 0.094 second cap between each bullet

'mouse drivers for certain mice'

Razer mice (button configuration)
By: tjo on 14/Jan/06 08:37
And automatic double-click with logotech mice.

Gods of ENSL, please let me use my intellimouse explorer 4.0, I hate my logotech mouse. Allow scripts!

(Actually I dont care either way, but I have a feeling that the next time I play NS I'll try my logotech mouse and see if a pistol script gives enough advantage for me to lose a measure of accuracy in general. I'd rather not have to do that).
By: email on 14/Jan/06 12:59
"Dont use scripts in the first place. its not hard. If you suck without scripts then, well... yeah." - Skyice

lol ok. more comments like that please,
By: cheeZ on 15/Jan/06 02:54
christ.. .... its a game
By: B1 ( iMAGINE ) on 16/Jan/06 11:03
YEAH ITS JUST A GAME MY ASS CHEEZ GO HOME TO YOUR MOM THIS IS REAL MEN TALKING.

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