BauerJankins says

Nothing to be afraid of I hope

BauerJankins says

I hope

Okay no idea how I missed this thread but I'll just share what I want from compmod.

Try to create an environment for 6v6 that is balanced and fun to play. I think we should kind of stay close to vanilla but adding or removing mechanics is nothing I am against if it makes sense.

I just have to trust that you know what you are doing but here is the one thing:

Please come up with a rough plan for compmod for the next 2-5 seasons.

The last thing I wanna see is a stale compmod. All I want is a DIFFERENT (not a bit but like very different) each season.

You can achieve this by just tweaking the values in Balance.lua, BalanceMisc.lua and BalanceHeaöth.lua

Going for examples here Maybe we see a season were PGs first are the main strat for marines and tripple gorge for aliens. And then next season fadeball could be strong again.

Now I don't want you to think "this season will be the season of fades".
Change values more or less randomly and see how the community adapts. If something is OP then balance it slightly (but please not by just reverting everything).

You can use gathers as testing grounds or maybe a playtest team even. 1 or 2 months of testing should be enough to have it polished for the next season then

Thanks meph. It's a good post, and yes it shows the difference in how this community can look at comp mod. There are a few issues with what you propose. People won't be happy with major changes without a reason they can accept. Also it means the comp mod would be deciding the meta on the fly which was never the intent. Also where do you draw the line.

It's better to balance off UWE changes. If they add something new to the game, a different layer - you can play off that and see if that adds something new from a comp perspective. People will also be much more willing to accept major changes if it's a cool new thing in the vanilla game.

Deck says

People will also be much more willing to accept major changes if it's a cool new thing in the vanilla game.

haha... hahahahah...... AAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!

I didn't realize until now, just how funny you can be deck.

This community is adverse to change, and has been for a very long time... any change, no matter how good/bad it was, that the PDT have introduced, people have complained and screamed for a revert.

The simple fact is, people want the comp mod from season 8 back... and when it is back they will happily play it in that incarnation until the entire community dies.

Kash says

Deck says

People will also be much more willing to accept major changes if it's a cool new thing in the vanilla game.

haha... hahahahah...... AAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!

I didn't realize until now, just how funny you can be deck.

This community is adverse to change, and has been for a very long time... any change, no matter how good/bad it was, that the PDT have introduced, people have complained and screamed for a revert.

The simple fact is, people want the comp mod from season 8 back... and when it is back they will happily play it in that incarnation until the entire community dies.

That's not a fair statement. People complained about the bad / terrible changes, NOT about the good ones. It is not the peoples fault that UWE fucked so many things up.

Home says

That's not a fair statement. People complained about the bad / terrible changes, NOT about the good ones. It is not the peoples fault that UWE fucked so many things up.

This is a common misconception. i'll explain.

step 1. People got used to how balanced comp mod was.
step 2. as a result of the above, people stopped playing pub, especially unmodded vanilla gameplay.
step 3. people forgot how vanilla actually played
step 4. The PDT made changes to vanilla
step 5. mods including the comp mod broke.
step 6. people were forced to play vanilla for the first time in years.
step 7. people say that vanilla as unmodded was bad.

well... no shit... vanilla was unbalanced and bad... thats why a comp mod was needed in the first place.

Pub play is now more balanced than it ever was.

is that saying that certain abilities aren't OP, hell no... some of it is abusable as fuck... they are in no way balanced for competitive play... but luckily enough, they are not trying to balance around competitive play, thats what the comp mod is for.

And here is the kicker, in the past, things that have made sense and improve play have been taken FROM comp mod and put INTO vanilla... What deck is saying is that the possibility of that happening is now zero.

Comp mod used to add things to create a fun competitive environment... now it just seems to revert to "how it used to be"... Don't get me wrong here, I appreciate the time, work and effort put into the comp mod and I do believe that it does what it sets out to do... create balanced 6 vs 6 play. I just believe that if you're going to change away from vanilla as far as it has already, why not consider introducing things that make gameplay better/more fun while maintaining the balance... it may give UWE ideas and get incorporated into the main game as some things have in the past.

okay deck here is the main reason on why we should change meta on the fly:

It adds a layer of skill to competitive ns2 that has been lost since season 6. This is the time when premiere division collapsed.

Basically atm everyone in div 1 knows ns2 and is up there only he knows how to aim, position, rotate and coordinate with teammates. But none of those up there can even hope to achieve the skill that premiere had back then (except maybe those who actually were premiere back then)

Those guys were legends because they were the ones who figured out the meta, were using them before everyone which gave them an advantage. This will help those people who have brains to adapt fast to changes. This is a skill that is not needed in ns2 anymore.

Do this like that and I am sure that a new premiere division (or atleast individual people who can be on this level) will come forth again.

People who fail to adapt will ofcourse play worse then.

Kash says

Pub play is now more balanced than it ever was.

Not sure how you came to that conclusion with hpbars, hitboxes, noobshield and increase in pres(onosxplosion) about. It seems more broken in balance than it ever was before(well not -ever- but you get the message).

Kash says

I just believe that if you're going to change away from vanilla as far as it has already, why not consider introducing things that make gameplay better/more fun while maintaining the balance... it may give UWE ideas and get incorporated into the main game as some things have in the past.

I would personally rather go into the direction of vanilla as much as possible and stop right before the point "unbalanced" instead of trying new things into the direction of "make it interesting" or and "evolving new metas".

Basically i would like to see Comp mod adjusting/changing after the saying:

"Change as less as possible but as much as needed to have a balance 6vs6"
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------



The most important argument why i think this should be handled like that is cause we have each season a lot of new Players getting familiar with comp mod and if you make it too different they gonna have a hard time learning everything. (but also because a lot of people constantly quit ns2 so we obliviously need these new people in the scene)


now the explanation.
I understand that the balance/meta can feel repetitive at some point but is it rly the cause of no balance changes ?
or is it just the fault of having such a small scene at this point
here are just some interesting starts i remember:

having 3 lerks instead of 2. to transition easier to 2 Onos so having 2 drifters ?
hmg flamer tactics from the Russian team.
Bubbas Exo Starts in Gathers.
Bubbas sentry strats in Gathers.
Phones fast pg strats recently on very big maps.
Phones Suprise Arc factory in south tunnels to arc warehouse.
Phones fast mine strats to push aggressive,
Playing a low RT game.
Having a agressive gorge tunnel the marines cant ignore cause they have to fear a full on baserush.
Having eddys gorge getting gorge tunnels constantly on other locations of the map.
Going Shift hive and echoing pve everywhere to help in fights.


And there are plenty more i think the major difference to the standard meta that needs the least teamwork/coordination is just that you need a well coordinated well together working team that has to all understand these starts inb4 you do them cause you obviously play them different.

Tyr says

Kash says

Pub play is now more balanced than it ever was.

Not sure how you came to that conclusion with hpbars, hitboxes, noobshield and increase in pres(onosxplosion) about. It seems more broken in balance than it ever was before(well not -ever- but you get the message).

Well they did fix the onos problem mostly by increasing the res needed to go onos. That was one really good change they did lately, but they also had to do it. The game was playing terrible before that. I do think pubs are playing pretty well overall, but of course they are always dependent on if people can lerk or fade and a bunch of other things to have a decent round. Who knows what is really more balanced or not, and this doesn't really matter for comp.

Kash says

Comp mod used to add things to create a fun competitive environment... now it just seems to revert to "how it used to be"... Don't get me wrong here, I appreciate the time, work and effort put into the comp mod and I do believe that it does what it sets out to do... create balanced 6 vs 6 play. I just believe that if you're going to change away from vanilla as far as it has already, why not consider introducing things that make gameplay better/more fun while maintaining the balance... it may give UWE ideas and get incorporated into the main game as some things have in the past.

Used to add things to create a fun competitive environment? When was comp mod of the past adding stuff for fun? Unless you mean the gorge bhop and machine gun (probably was plenty of other things). Was that to make it more fun or because the game played better with those things in the game? Well, UWE did change sg spread after we did to a very similar value. Not sure if they were already thinking about changing it before someone saw comp mod changed the sg spread, but there is that. We haven't made any big changes that UWE wants to put in the game, because that hasn't been the goal of the current comp mod. We are not trying to add new weapons to the game or new abilities. Where do you draw the line?

Mega_noComm says

having 3 lerks instead of 2. to transition easier to 2 Onos so having 2 drifters ?
hmg flamer tactics from the Russian team.
Bubbas Exo Starts in Gathers.
Bubbas sentry strats in Gathers.
Phones fast pg strats recently on very big maps.
Phones Suprise Arc factory in south tunnels to arc warehouse.
Phones fast mine strats to push aggressive,
Playing a low RT game.
Having a agressive gorge tunnel the marines cant ignore cause they have to fear a full on baserush.
Having eddys gorge getting gorge tunnels constantly on other locations of the map.
Going Shift hive and echoing pve everywhere to help in fights.


And there are plenty more i think the major difference to the standard meta that needs the least teamwork/coordination is just that you need a well coordinated well together working team that has to all understand these starts inb4 you do them cause you obviously play them different.

Good point Mega. There are already differences from the standard meta. I don't think comp mod should be picking the meta so to speak as it seems like Mephilles wants. It's not my role to say phase gates should be stronger because I'm bored. Or today I want sgs to not be that good. If you choose the meta, you could end up limiting the gameplay. You could be making the game less interesting. I don't think some people have considered enough what Mega is saying. There are plenty of different ways to play the game already. If you buff things for fun, you end up limiting other meta's and creating Op'd things in the game. Why would we want to add op things to the game?

I would prefer to balance off of UWE changes to vanilla and see if a new thing added can be used. Another thing we could look into is nerfing a standard meta. Then you could make other meta's stronger. The issue with that is, the game may be balanced around the standard meta to a point where if you throw that off, you throw off other things. If people have ideas on nerfing a standard meta that wouldn't hurt the gameplay, please share. Also, if you have an idea on adding something new to the game, please share. If you just want to buff something by mixing the values up randomly, I don't know how to begin that conversation.

I don't want the game to be boring either. I don't think it is, but I can see people's concerns if they review the new changes we are thinking of making to comp mod which aren't really changing the meta or adding new things to the game. Again, please share if you have ideas for things that you think would increase the fun.

Kash says

Deck says

People will also be much more willing to accept major changes if it's a cool new thing in the vanilla game.

haha... hahahahah...... AAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!

What about crush?
There are definitely things EVERYONE accepts as long as they dont disrupt the very sensitive alien - marine balance. You could argue that more changes in balance are a good thing, and yes, under different circumstances I would agree with you. But with so few people left in the game (and even less in the comp scene) it would be the killing blow to the comp scene (and comp mod). Just imagine if those few players that are still playing suddenly had to relearn counters to strats, or how to use a certain tech effectively. I'm very sure that around 40% of the people (mostly the ones who understand the game the best right now) still playing are only doing so because it's a fun and easy game once you've learned it. You can make decisions on your own very easily when you've played under the current meta so much.
I'm gonna guarantee you IF you did a complete rebalance of certain features you'd kill the nsl for good. Not that it'd matter much now anyway but most of the FEW good players left are not gonna be willing to play with that

Tyr says

Not sure how you came to that conclusion with hpbars, hitboxes, noobshield and increase in pres(onosxplosion) about. It seems more broken in balance than it ever was before(well not -ever- but you get the message).

I'm going off of the stats. "balance" is the win/lose rate of aliens vs marines... and the percentages of win/loss are closer than they have ever been, on almost all maps... because there are new people playing alongside bad players, none communicative players and the occasional high skill player.

As I said, I am not saying everything that was introduced is balanced in 6 vs 6... I'm saying that in the varying player numbers and skill levels environment, the changes have resulted in a more balanced game.

HP bars increased the skill floor, meaning rookies could have more effect on the field while in combat.
Hitboxes, whether people agree or not, they made shooting feel better, and they made the game a little easier for marines... previously the hitboxes were not covering the whole model, now they do... at least the hitboxes aren't as bad as Overwatch where you can kill people around fucking corners.
"noobshield" "onosplosion" etc. they are all tweaks that have resulted in alien/marine win/loss ratio becoming more equal.

Do I think these things are perfect for 6 vs 6? fuck no, why the hell would I think that? but they ARE good for public play.

If the numbers were tweaked they could easily be balanced for Competitive 6 vs 6... Its not THAT difficult... the problem for me is, people don't want that, they want season 6 comp mod because that was already balanced and people are in nature, impatient and dislike change... especially around here.

Then people argue that you shouldn't have to balance a "bad change"... well, get over it, its in vanilla, if you remove it, you're not sticking to vanilla, your not balancing vanilla anymore, you're reverting vanilla.

If you're going to change vanilla, just fucking change it, don't pussy around saying "oh, I don't want to change too much". The comp mod stopped balancing vanilla the second boneshield was reverted, hp bars and focus were removed and silence was put back on shade. not to mention the revert to the hitboxes, moving spores back to biomass 7.
_________________________________________________
(How long until we see the arc speed boost re-implemented? or the arms lab cost increased to 20 and the proto reduced to 30 like they used to be?) /s
_________________________________________________

Anyway, I went a touch off topic there...

In short, the vanilla game is better since the changes were made and the proof is in the statistics.

Do I understand the changes made in compmod? yes, Do I think the changes work? yes. Do I 100% agree with the changes made? No. I would much rather see a comp mod with everything that is in vanilla tweaked so that 6 vs 6 is balanced. Rather than everything getting reverted because people like the way things were 2 years ago.

Kash, yes I can understand when the comp mod took a turn away from just nerfing things in vanilla. It's an interesting discussion because I'm not saying you're wrong with how you would like the game balanced. We could try to balance around healthbars, onos boneshield, focus, and silence on shift hive. Is that making the game more fun though? It seems like Mephilles is talking about adding fun things to the game. Isn't what you're saying just nerfing things already in the vanilla game? If we have to nerf onos boneshield so it doesn't play terrible, is that worth doing? Is it worth trying to play against silence skulks early in the round in a comp environment? Some of these things may be difficult to balance against.

I see where you are coming from. It seems like we are just slowly going back towards an old version of the comp mod. We haven't made a final decision on spores yet btw. They could be moved to biomass 6 instead of 7. The thing is, perhaps silence was on shade hive for years for a reason. Perhaps the game plays better with it on shade hive so marines can play around silence better. Think about it like this, you get wall hacks (aura) and sound hacks (silence) on shade hive. Those are 2 extremely strong abilities that make it very hard to play against. Perhaps there is a reason those are connected to a hive that is harder to choose early in the game. Perhaps that keeps them away from being op'd. There were years of keeping it like this, so maybe that is the best balance for 6v6.

We are also always going to have a difference of opinion. If I don't think healthbars should be in a comp environment because I think they make the game too casual and ruin the communication part of ns2, then I want them removed. You might go, well just adjust and play on. If I think it ruins part of what makes the game great, why shouldn't we remove it? This goes back to what I said before about big things and small things. I don't think we can act like healthbars are the same thing as trying to balance crush. If you have healthbars in the game, it changes the whole feel of ns2. The whole feel of ns since the beginning. It's different than just changing a value.

I never talked about adding thigs for fun. Above I have mentioned to change values. And by that the only thigns I would change are cost, resarch times, damage, health, movement speed and something along those lines (not sure if I firgot stuff). I never talked about adding or removing stuff. About adding or removing stuff I am pretty open to that. If it makes sense to add or remove then do so.

The thing that you can horribly break something... yes there is a risk and that's why you do this in advance to the season with enough testing time and observation so we can tweak values again in order to balance things that are completely broken, OP or even underpowered.

When it comes to the point of meta I was not wording myself clearly enough. It is true that you have enough varieties in strats but they all are similar in some way. Prime examples are armslab are always included quite early and aliens always go 2 lerks 2 fades.
Changing the meta is actually not even correct when I say that...

Metagame basically means "the game around the game" which means everything you do for the gme that is not in the game. Now everyone raises his hand who puts like 1-2 hours daily into thinking about ns2 (without playing it) theory to figure out how to optimise techpaths, playstyles, resource management and team formations during engagements.

I am pretty sure no one here does.(well maybe phone) I want to bring this back

Deck says

Long post (I don't want to take up too much space with what you actually wrote)

Oh i'm not saying Health bars should stay in... out of everything removed, I 100% back the removal of health bars... they were a great addition to pub play, but I don't think they belong in Comp because it would reduce/remove the need for communication. They are an addition to the game that does make sense, but not for competitive play... exactly the same for seeing who is the enemy commander on the scoreboard.

But everything else I believe could have been balanced. And I do agree with you Deck, it is very difficult to balance silence on shift hive, or nerfing boneshield to a point where it is balanced, but imo there is a reason to try to balance before revert.

Silence would be really hard to do, but not impossible, and it would be interesting to see how things would change as its being tweaked.

Boneshield, the purpose of boneshield in pubs is 2-fold, in combat it acted as a damage shield (too well for 6 vs 6 because the onos outhealed 3 marines shooting at it.) and an out of combat heal (instead of crag/gorge etc) making the onos more self reliant.
nerf the crap out of it and you have a very minor out of combat heal, and an ability that functions almost exactly the same as the old boneshield (the one you reverted to).

The only argument against it i've heard is "I don't think a lifeform having a heal is fair... except for the gorge obv... and the fade... and anyone that takes regen... and crags..."... the people making those arguments are using a personal grudge against self heals (something that is very much in vanilla) and using it to try to get those functions out of the game.

Lifeform eggs, the removal of them made sense, because lifeforms are so important, to not be punished for losing one is insane. Unless you make them really expensive, limit the amount that can be dropped and what biomass is needed to drop them... which imo would have been worth a try out at the very least.

Either way, as I've said before (and i'll say again now and undoubtedly many times in the future) I do appreciate the work you are putting into the comp mod, and while I may disagree at times with the changes that are being made sometimes, the results of those changes are still beneficial and allow competitive play to be fun.

At the end of the day, there will always be disagreements because there are degrees to everything. So we both agree on healthbars. This also explains why people were so against healthbars when they came out, pub players speaking out in the UWE forums. It got after a core feeling in the game, that felt wrong to so many. UWE ignored it, and still continued on, but that feeling is still there. So healthbars crossed over that boundary for you and you consider it to be harmful to the core of the game.

We disagree on what things cross that line. Your line stops at healthbars and doesn't include anything else. Yes, I don't like self healing different from ways lifeforms have healed in the past because of my own feelings on how the game should play and how it always has played. Lifeform eggs are a good example. Could you balance it to make it work in a comp environment? Perhaps, and the meta might change in interesting ways. Would it change part of what makes the game play great competitively though? I think the removal of lifeform eggs and old pres rates creates an intensity to the fights that is part of what makes 6v6 ns2 such a great game. I think if you change that part of the game and make lifeforms lives less intense, you take away from the comp aspects. That is my own opinion and you may disagree.

Some of it comes down to, would the game play better or worse with your alternate version of comp mod? We would have to play it to know. Maybe both would work. Then it would come down to, which one would more people in this community prefer to play? I hope they would prefer to play the current version. If not, then were going in the wrong direction. Please share if you disagree.

Deck says

Some of it comes down to, would the game play better or worse with your alternate version of comp mod? We would have to play it to know. Maybe both would work. Then it would come down to, which one would more people in this community prefer to play? I hope they would prefer to play the current version. If not, then were going in the wrong direction. Please share if you disagree.

There is no doubt in my mind at all that both would definitely work. I'm not saying DON'T REVERT, I'm just saying that I prefer the idea of at least trying to balance something before reverting... reverting should be a last resort imo.

Onos boneshield wasn't even attempted to be balanced, it was just reverted, lifeform eggs were instantly removed (although I honestly cannot think of a good way to balance that so I'd say "maybe" allow gorge eggs at biomass 3, but other than that, nope, I'd probably remove them too)

Hitboxes are a great example at the moment... instead of balancing around them, and people learning to play with the new hitboxes... they are just being reverted... the skulk ones got reverted very early too.

I find it kind of odd that medpacks were changed, everyone blew up for about 4 days and then got used to them (largely because most people don't play comm so have no idea how much you had to change the way you spent res based on this one change) commanders got used to that change and adjusted, yet field players don't have the desire to learn to deal with changes applied to their style of play, they just want season 6 comp mod back... because back in season 6 they didn't make as many mistakes, didn't die as often or whatever and now they are nostalgic so they complain until reverts happen.

I can't be the only one that doesn't like the idea of just repeating the past.

Kash says

Deck says

Some of it comes down to, would the game play better or worse with your alternate version of comp mod? We would have to play it to know. Maybe both would work. Then it would come down to, which one would more people in this community prefer to play? I hope they would prefer to play the current version. If not, then were going in the wrong direction. Please share if you disagree.

There is no doubt in my mind at all that both would definitely work. I'm not saying DON'T REVERT, I'm just saying that I prefer the idea of at least trying to balance something before reverting... reverting should be a last resort imo.

Onos boneshield wasn't even attempted to be balanced, it was just reverted, lifeform eggs were instantly removed (although I honestly cannot think of a good way to balance that so I'd say "maybe" allow gorge eggs at biomass 3, but other than that, nope, I'd probably remove them too)

Hitboxes are a great example at the moment... instead of balancing around them, and people learning to play with the new hitboxes... they are just being reverted... the skulk ones got reverted very early too.

I find it kind of odd that medpacks were changed, everyone blew up for about 4 days and then got used to them (largely because most people don't play comm so have no idea how much you had to change the way you spent res based on this one change) commanders got used to that change and adjusted, yet field players don't have the desire to learn to deal with changes applied to their style of play, they just want season 6 comp mod back... because back in season 6 they didn't make as many mistakes, didn't die as often or whatever and now they are nostalgic so they complain until reverts happen.

I can't be the only one that doesn't like the idea of just repeating the past.

We only reverted the fade hitbox. When did the skulk ones get reverted? Did I miss something? Are you also saying meds changed? Just in case there is any confusion, meds in comp mod are the same as in vanilla. Hitboxes are all the same in comp mod as vanilla except for the fade. The fade hitbox was reverted because fades were taking max damage with the new hitboxes and I felt like it was hurting the balance.

I think he is referring to the UWE medpack update that nerfed medpacks to heal over time.

Deck says

We only reverted the fade hitbox. When did the skulk ones get reverted? Did I miss something? Are you also saying meds changed? Just in case there is any confusion, meds in comp mod are the same as in vanilla. Hitboxes are all the same in comp mod as vanilla except for the fade. The fade hitbox was reverted because fades were taking max damage with the new hitboxes and I felt like it was hurting the balance.

Heh, I could have sworn I read somewhere that the skulk hitbox had been reverted... My mistake.

But there is talk about reverting the lerk hitbox also.

Home says

I think he is referring to the UWE medpack update that nerfed medpacks to heal over time.

I am indeed.

@Deck

My point about the medpacks was that people complained saying it was a bad change, then just... forgot about it.

If a change is balanced, people forget about their original complaint, because it works fine... the concern falls into the background. imo, almost everything is balance-able. But not everything is fun, and the thing that keeps people playing is FUN... if its not fun, people leave. (edit... The point I'm trying to make here is that some things are being reverted/removed for the sake of "balance" while sacrificing fun, instead of being tweaked to maintain fun and create balance imo)

To be honest, my main concern at the moment is that one person is deciding what is and isn't good for compmod, and that is not in any way personal, I would think the same if it were anyone else (edit. nor is it that I dislike your changes, as i've said before, I appreciate the effort and the outcome, I'm just not 100% behind the means to the end sometimes)... that being said, one persons vision isn't good enough (regardless of who that person is), It should be a team of people with an odd number (as i've said to you before) and all people involved should have varying ideas to create debate and discussion, ideally you want 5 people that play the game and are passionate about making it better. those people vote on what direction they think a change should take, the result should be adhered to (the reason for odd numbers obviously being that then you never end in a tie situation that never gets resolved so nothing gets done).

And if I am wrong with the above and its not just one person making the decisions, then why is no one else stepping up and taking part in the debates?

Kash says

And if I am wrong with the above and its not just one person making the decisions, then why is no one else stepping up and taking part in the debates?

When the mod was first created, I did come up with some of the initial changes to get it going, but I did discuss some of the early changes with other comp players as well. There may have been some changes I decided on by myself. Before last season, there was more of an official group of sorts to discuss all proposed changes. If people didn't agree to try a change, it wasn't implemented. At the present moment we still have a group of about 6 people. Not positive who would be given a vote per say yet if it was a split decision. Let's say 3 people wanted spores biomass 6 and 3 wanted biomass 7, it's better to have 5 people to get a vote in those scenarios. So we will have to make sure that works, but yes there is a group in place to discuss these changes. So let's say I wanted to change something for fun, the other people would probably not agree with that and I'm not going to add something to the game that no one else agrees with.

Your medpack point I agree with in a sense. I'm not entirely convinced I like the medpack change still. This is a good example of me asking if this was a good change for comp. It was decided to not change medpacks from vanilla when discussed with other people.

There may be people other than Mephilles that want fun things added to comp mod, or things that shake up the gameplay. Can those people propose other ideas other than changing values randomly? We could try the changing values randomly idea, but not sure how many other people would want to do that. Also, I would like to hear people's ideas about how we could go about nerfing the standard meta to make the game more interesting, and not ruin the balance at the same time.

I have another request for the next update of the compmod. Please remove
the time to enter an exo from another Player or make it 5 sec. Because its
retarded to have to wait idk 45sec? or smth like that.
I know its not going to be a problem often but its still stupid.

mortmann says

I have another request for the next update of the compmod. Please remove
the time to enter an exo from another Player or make it 5 sec. Because its
retarded to have to wait idk 45sec? or smth like that.
I know its not going to be a problem often but its still stupid.

Lol I didn't even know there was a timer for that.

there is to prevent exo stealing on pubs.

So how much truth is to the "reverting lerk hitbox" thing?

none

Latest potential changes to be made to Comp Mod after the season. Please discuss:

1) Change Gorge Speed/Movement - we are looking into if any changes need to be made.
- This is because there was some discussion on how fast gorges are moving and getting to top speed right now in comp. We are reviewing, no decisions have been made.
2) Move spores to biomass 7 and increase the hp damage on spores by 2
- This is because there has been discussion on the difficulty of pushing a hive against spores. Might be better to move this to hive 3 and increase the damage to make it more of an advantage for aliens once they get a 3rd hive up, but force aliens to defend a hive differently with 1 or 2 hives.
3) Change Mine health to the following: +kMineHealth = 70 kMineArmor = 5
- This is because there was discussion that using crush or adrenaline might make it too easy to parasite destroy a mine by yourself. This increase makes it so you have to wait for your energy bar to go back up and makes it more difficult to bite an rt after for example.
4) Change Fade Advanced Metabolize to the following: kMetabolizeHealthRegain = 10 -- NSL-Compmod change from 15
- This is because there was discussion on should fades have an easy time healing while pushing the metabolize button. It can be strong in certain situations so a nerf is being looked at.
5) Remove Lockdown timer on Exos
- This is because there was discussion that this doesn't belong in comp. This seems like a vanilla change so people can't steal people's exo's, but doesn't make as much sense for comp.
6) Remove bilebomb from Contamination or reduce it - (per latest feedback, it may be more difficult to code removing the bilebomb completely, so we may end up reducing it)
- This is because of complaints on how strong contamination is. We will probably reduce the bilebomb from contamination or remove it.

Deck says

Changes

1. Yes please.
2. Still not a fan of biomass 7, biomass 6 with no damage increase would be enough imo.
3. Good change, most people don't bother buying mines at the moment because of low health making them almost useless.
4. I would definitely rather see it nerfed than removed as was previously suggested. so thumbs up for this.
5. 100% agree... no reason to have a "safe" Exo in a competitive environment.
6. reducing would be my request, outright removing the mechanic I don't like, i'd rather see the damage nerfed, the contaminations HP nerfed and its cost increased a little.

Kash says

In short, the vanilla game is better since the changes were made and the proof is in the statistics.

Do I understand the changes made in compmod? yes, Do I think the changes work? yes. Do I 100% agree with the changes made? No. I would much rather see a comp mod with everything that is in vanilla tweaked so that 6 vs 6 is balanced. Rather than everything getting reverted because people like the way things were 2 years ago.

the whhoole problem with everyything youre saying is that UWE is a dumb organization who onnly cares about player retteeention and the number of ppl playing the gamee. once you realize that, you see that their balancing ddecisions arent based on actual balance of the game. thheyree literally making tweaks 2 KEEP PLAY+ERS PLAYING

im nnot gonna play aa fucking game which is balanced around keeping puub players around.

you think ANY SUCCESSFUL GAMEIS BALANCED AROUND THE BOTTOM TIER PLAYERS? NoPe it'S NoT