The Current NSL Competitive Mod

asdfg
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1 April 2017 - 18:17 CEST
loMe says
SG's aren't OP!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RpMSfCn5IzA


j/k if 1 marine can hold their ground vs 2 fades + gorge + lerk with med spam something aint right. Though those moments are the most fun parts of playing imo so don't nerf my SG =)


You posted the wrong clip https://www.twitch.tv/videos/46786792
loMe
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1 April 2017 - 18:57 CEST
asdfg says

You posted the wrong clip https://www.twitch.tv/videos/46786792

SHAZBOT!!
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1 April 2017 - 19:20 CEST
Yes, the shotgun spread is increased from before. People also complained about the sg being too strong against fades before. This will hurt a player in the mid range doing strong sg damage. Might hurt the lome video moments. Hopefully it's at the right point where you can still have similar moments, but perhaps a little less dominating.
Mephilles
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2 April 2017 - 14:20 CEST
nightsy, believe me the hitboxes are fine. I had the pleasure to play with the old hitboxes against horror show and there are so many spots on the skulk model that no reg... you rly don't want to go back to that, trust me (unless you want to have a game balanced around no regs again)

And the fun part is with the old hotboxes there was no difference for shotguns. Only LMGs got affected hard
BauerJankins
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2 April 2017 - 14:22 CEST
exaggerated
http://i.imgur.com/hr1ud2u.png
turtsmcgurts
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3 April 2017 - 01:50 CEST
is it really noreg when you're just shooting through empty space, not the actual model?
Mephilles
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5 April 2017 - 10:28 CEST


AFAIK if you hit any of the non-blue spots on the skulk, he won't get damage

Btw this screenshot was taken after a PCW 2-3 weeks ago where different skulk models had different hitboxes
Mendasp
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5 April 2017 - 10:47 CEST
Mephilles says


AFAIK if you hit any of the non-blue spots on the skulk, he won't get damage

Btw this screenshot was taken after a PCW 2-3 weeks ago where different skulk models had different hitboxes


You are wrong. If you hit those gaps you'll still get a hit, you can clearly see the blue polygons behind the model when you don't see blue, it's just that there's a bit of model on top, but there are no gaps there. The hitboxes on the left are literally the same as the ones on the right, just scaled up.

If you took that screenshot, you could have tested with the pistol that you do indeed get hits in those "gaps".

In any case, a long time ago sewlek made the bullets have a "width" so it was pretty forgiving, you could hit shots you were missing already with the old hitboxes. Increasing the hitbox sizes only makes it even easier to get hits that you should never get.
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5 April 2017 - 15:25 CEST
ok thx for clearing that up then
Bicsum
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5 April 2017 - 16:41 CEST
What about this though? How to fix this without changing the old hitbox/adding tolerance?



Mendasp
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5 April 2017 - 16:58 CEST
That's client misprediction. The server and the client think the model position and animations are in different places and thus your client shows blood and the server tells you that you missed. Precisely because you see blood (which is client-side/predicted) you know that the hitboxes are fine on your side, it's the server thinking it's somewhere else.

Hitboxes aren't a problem here, that's just server and client not being in sync. I'm sure bigger hitboxes mask the problem a bit (and not in all cases), but it's not actually fixed...

Someone would need to debug this to see what's going wrong. But that's UWE's job.
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5 April 2017 - 18:19 CEST
Well, Ironhorse made the video and the result was the enlargement of the hitboxes.

If I understand this correctly, this effect is the result of 'small precision errors in time measurement' with lag compensation and is only reducable with higher tickrate, which the spark engine does not permit, which means that adding tolerance to the hitbox(/tracer) is the only option to make the hitreg not feel like fucking the marine over.


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5 April 2017 - 20:32 CEST
The Spark engine does support higher tickrate, it will just consume more CPU (serverside mostly) and bandwidth (the low sendrate is one thing that's causing many issues like ammo counts going back and forth when firing, etc). Increasing it will help, but won't totally fix the issue.

That's too big of a discrepancy to be simply down to tickrate and it's certainly not a "small precision error". Is the interpolation that different between the client and server that something that obvious and linear in movement gets mispredicted with that amount of ease of reproduction? There's other games running at laughably low tickrates that handle prediction more complex than that just fine. If it's a discrepancy it's certainly not small, it's a bit embarrassing to look at, honestly.

The problem with UWE and how they work is that they will keep on saying that something will take very long to do and therefore never even start doing it, even if the benefits are huge and really apparent. In any case I don't think with their current team they could tackle this properly, this is something that should have been done near release.

Increasing the hitboxes is an easy hack, but it also creates new problems. Tracking down the exact problem and fixing would take proper work.
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6 April 2017 - 13:17 CEST
Yeah, I meant that higher tickrate isn't an option, because the average server can't take it.

Other than that, I agree, that it does look like there is more to it than 'low' tickrate and it could and should be a lot better.
I still have faith that something will be done about this in the future though.
DCDarkling
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16 April 2017 - 18:55 CEST
You do not need higher tickrate.
If the server can take it, you can boost the needed rates (send and move) just fine already. Its just, most servers cant take it.
Right now you can boost send to 29 without changing tick. Move than to roughly 36.
And than you see your cpu die. But you didnt edit tick! :D

There were gaps in the old models hitboxes, but they weren't those blue boxes. :)
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